What do you expect transwomen to do then?

What @Artichokeleaves said.

I would like everyone who believes that female only anything should be mixed sex without exception to consider their arguments and the desired outcomes while reflecting on colonialism.

Osterhammel asks, "How can 'colonialism' be defined independently from 'colony?'"[9] He settles on a three-sentence definition:

Colonialism is a relationship between an indigenous (or forcibly imported) majority and a minority of foreign invaders. The fundamental decisions affecting the lives of the colonised people are made and implemented by the colonial rulers in pursuit of interests that are often defined in a distant metropolis. Rejecting cultural compromises with the colonised population, the colonisers are convinced of their own superiority and their ordained mandate to rule.

www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/colonialism

The other amazing thing is that on twitter, trans activists are constantly telling Helen Staniland that communal showers don't exist any more in leisure facilities, and that the Staniland question concerns an entirely hypothetical scenario.

Oh look, turns out communal showers do exist, don't they. Well, of course they do. They're a space-saving measure.

I could be very cynical and say that it's almost like the reaction from females in the shower and changing room is important to the poster.

I expect TW to not treat females like this. It would not be acceptable from any other male.

Oh dear! Absolutely no care that it caused the woman distress. Just determined entitlement that they had every right to be there.

Hang on… where are all those who tell us that these males never do this. That they would never shower without being private … ever… at all?

I’ve never seen a women’s gym either here or in the US where the actual showers didn’t have enclosed cubicles, so the piteous “showering with my cock exposed” doesn’t really wash (as it were…)

Very difficult too to not see the thrill in breaking boundaries.

Female people's boundaries.

I don't exist as a prop in someone else's experiences. Go shower with your cock out somewhere I don't have to be involved.

This is an exchange from twitter today.

I expect transwomen not to shower with their cocks out in the women's area.

Either use the men's, ask for a third space/go to a gym that has one, or shower at home.

I expect that to accept that we live in a misogynistic society and their sense of entitlement to be the ones deciding what is 'within reason' is a clear expression of their male privilege.

This! Males can never understand what it is to be female. Even when they think they do, they have no idea.

What do you expect transwomen to do then? Should they not just be extended as much as they possible can within reason?

I expect transwomen to accept that the 'within reason' parameters should only ever be set by biological women. I expect that to accept that we live in a misogynistic society and their sense of entitlement to be the ones deciding what is 'within reason' is a clear expression of their male privilege. I expect them to listen to the answers which women have already given re: giving up female-protected spaces and try and sort out the problems which toxic masculinity is presenting for some males rather than demanding that women give up all rights in order to sort it out for them.

The answer can only be that it is the FEMALE space which provides the much needed validation. BUT..............It's really not the space itself that is the attraction, its the FEMALES inside it, who provide the validation therein. A space without females in it is just a space.

It's not enough that they have that space, they are have to have the acceptance (willing or otherwise) of the females in it.

TWAW! That's what they believe, so that's why they insist on accessing the spaces they believe they are entitled to.
Which is why I'm convinced that millions spent on building third spaces for trans people will be an exercise in name only, and largely lie unused.

The Hampstead Pond situation is a prime example of this. One for men, one for mixed and one for women. The men who say they are women weren't happy with either the male pond, or the mixed pond and they absolutely had to have the female pond. Thus women who didn't want to be swimming with men, were ousted from their own pond.

This can't be repeated enough.

There were three options. All male people however they identified had the option of two already. As did female people. Male people wanted the female only option too. When females tried to argue their case, Edward Lord among others triumphally shut them down. Male people could now use whichever of the three they felt like in the moment.

There was no attempt to listen to female need or argument. Not even a discussion about could there be times or slots when female only was permitted. No, male people had to conquer that space, own it, control it. As a result, an orthodox Jewish woman who was a regular pool users lost access to any pool at all so that these male people could have all three options. No one's noticed or counted how many other females lost access altogether so male people could have access to everything.

A woman is currently seeking legal advice on the fact that her local rape crisis centre, funded by her taxes, provides three separate options for male people however they identify: a male option, a trans specific option and a mixed sex women's group. They cannot and will not provide any option at all for female people who cannot access the one single option of the mixed sex women's group. Why will they not?

Because male people refuse to tolerate female people having a resource of their own. They would prefer to see female rape victims go without help than tolerate that some females need spaces that cannot revolve around male need and be all the time under male control and focus.

This greed, this absolute inability to see females as human, is what has driven me and many other women to saying, I am done with trying to make this work. Female people need single sex things, strictly gate kept, and this sex segregation has been proved necessary by these events. Because here we see, yet again, mixed sex resources do not work for all female people ^because male people will dominate the resources, have little care or respect for females that allows sharing, and are unable to see females as equally human'.

In a couple of hundred years when maybe male people have managed to get past this, they can come and talk to females about mixed sex provision. But frankly, stopping permitting female people to have single sex provision because male people don't want them to have it is about the biggest reason you could point to as why females need single sex spaces, protected and gatekept by law. Because male people will not be extending them any such courtesy voluntarily.

I would like for TW to campaign for their OWN spaces and services, the way that women have had to, and not for women to be expected to 'budge up' to make room for them.
It's the MALE estate that need to expend to include TW, not the female estate made to squash up and enfold more people who do not belong in that estate.

I would like the biology denying to stop. For TW to accept that they are biologically male. For people with DSDs not to be constantly used in arguments about binary sex.

I would like to not be compelled to use certain types of speech and language that I do not agree with.

I would like my sex class as female and woman to be protected, and be allowed to refer to myself as mother, woman and female.

I expect transwomen to state clearly what they need entirely separately to what women need. We are not the same.

Until they realise that they are going to be constantly disappointed at the lack of 'acceptance'. I can agree you are a transwoman, I can't agree that you are a woman. We are different in our beliefs there.

Women do not have to compromise our rights, we do not have to include others sexes in our rights and we do not have to give up our rights. Women on the whole had more or less what they needed until TRAs started taking them away.

Transwomen could also have more or less or what they need if they do what many women are doing now - get organised, raise funds, state your needs, campaign and go to court to have law tested.

Trying to change language, make people say they believe something that they don't, and attack on every form of social media isn't going to work and it isn't going to help transwomen is it. So they should stop doing that.

Oh yes, and also they should stop being so fucking homophobic and let lesbians choose their same sex partners in peace.

That's what I expect them to do. Have they got any better ideas?

No, not thick. That's what has bewildered many others too. It's what makes it easy for policy makers to believe that they are doing the right thing - why on earth wouldn't a caring society want to help it's weakest, most put upon, hated, suicidal cohort?

I've known about it for years and I still cannot get my head round Stonewall's active lobbying for the removal of single sex spaces. I didn't understand it 5 years ago and I don't understand it now. But it is there, in black and white. It is something they are working towards.

It is incomprehensible!

But what I mean is how can this be ignored in policy-making around toilets etc. and how do the policy-makers justify the different approaches for the two sexes? What’s their angle when it’s pointed out….🤔 Do they really openly say it’s because men are violent? (Because “NAMALT”, no? And that’s why they can use the Ladies..)

Perhaps I’m being thick but there really is something I don’t get. But at work, so rushing a message without thinking too hard maybe too.

Power and control again by men. Just leave me alone you rabid infiltrating transwhatevers, you are not special, you are making yourselves look like idiots no doubt to assert the testosterone bit of you that still exists within.

People will accept many things and in general are tolerant of many things, provided respect is part of it all on both sides. I have no truck with men dressed as women or saying they are women using women only spaces. I despair at the lack of common sense and decency amongst those who make the rules and tread over women's rights every day. Why do they do this and who are they afraid of?

Strange though that similar issues do not seem to apply to transmen entering men's spaces isn't it? Power again.

Respect is all that is needed, together with an acknowledgment of the rights of women to their own spaces. Forever.

Ah come on Swash reasons

Mainly toxic masculinity, which we GC women also decry, even if many men choose to misinterpret that too.

I have never understood the toilet thing.

We women have been accepting masculine and biological women in our toilets ever since we had them. From tomboys to butch lesbians; wearing men’s clothes, with barber shop haircuts. We haven’t objected; why on earth would we...they are one of us and we welcome the female spectrum.

Why is this not expected of men in the men’s? I don’t get it.

It’s just more BeKind Ladies or else, shakes fist. Shite isn’t it?

Men will tell us Ladyees what’s what.

I don't want any male in a female space. I don't agree with a case by case, as soon as a male person enters it is no longer a female space
The very people who want to ignore female boundaries are the ones I would least want there