Kellie Jay on Talk Radio with James Max

He's being absolutely roasted on Twitter, and rightly so.

I have trouble with the "choosing to be gay" part of the interview.

I understand it's only a small part, but PP has often struck me as being slightly homophobic and this doesn't help.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is. I think a lot of sensible people will have been turned off when she mentioned that. Doesn't help with the "bigot" accusations.

Of course, the interviewer seemed like a total twat and she rightly wiped the floor with him in all other respects.

That was hilarious and cringe. That guy had nothing. He thought his imaginary moral high ground would prepare him adequately I guess.

Oops, should have left a bigger gap before adding my own comment about James doing a cancelled / not cancelled u-turn.

It looks a bit like KJK said that. which she didn't.

I wonder which way the discussion will go tomorrow. I'm imagining it will be a 'most marginalised and discriminated against' slant. I wonder whether the guest will be as direct and clear as Kellie-Jay, or whether there will be lots of feelings and stereotypes?

Still doubling down

Seems he is going to be continuing with this subject tomorrow. Could he be interviewing India as he retweeted their comments on the interview?

@NancyDrawed

Thank you, Nancy.

Thanks Mollyollydolly for posting this, one of the posters on Twitter said she'd never have thought PP v Harrop would be bettered, but that this one just takes the edge!

Men really do not like to be told no by strong, attractive women, do they? And she was so very calm and direct in her rebuttals.

I do like to transcribe things, this stood out to me (5.49 ish):

JM:I am slightly staggered by your views on the basis that, er, mayb..

KJK: That biological sex exists?! You're staggered by that view?

JM: Maybe I may have to change my mind - maybe it was right that if you take those views, you should be cancelled.

KJK: Wow. You're on Talk Radio, right?

JM: Yes.

KJK: Okay. And you think people should be cancelled for having the view that biological sex is real.

JM: (butting in) No, I don't. I don't think that people should be cancelled and I would like people to have different views, but I find it staggering that you would want to have this discrimination perpetrated against people who are born different to you

KJK: No. I want MEN out of women's spaces. That's not born different, that's a biological fact, and that biological fact determines whether somebody is a risk to women.

Make up your mind James - 'you should be cancelled' two seconds later 'I don't think that people should be cancelled'

WeeBisom according to one of my friends his childhood was acutely uncomfortable as when he saw his body in a mirror it didn't look how he imagined it to be. Nothing he could do made it look how he felt it should be. He was diagnosed with body dismorphia when he started to self harm.

I'm his late teens he put on a dress and make up and came to the pub dressed as a woman. The reaction he got was mixed (I was there, it was in the early 80s) and his only memory of that night was of fear and then relief. He has presented himself in a very feminine manner ever since.

He is effeminate. He has had face and breast surgery. He is in a long standing relationship with a gay man. He is a transwomen. And that means, to him, that he knows he is male but feels uncomfortable in a traditional masculine role so presents himself in a feminine manner.

He used to use female spaces, public loos etc. He no longer does. He gets it - now.

But the idea that they literally feel like the opposite sex, literally feel they have a vagina when they have a penis, is implausible to me.

I think in general they don't claim to feel that. Instead it's more that they feel like [the sexist stereotype of] a woman or man in their inner sense of who they are.

Of course, you could feel exactly like this and not consider yourself trans, just gender non-conforming. It all depends on how much you think being male or female should correlate with a stereotype, and that feeling like what you suppose the opposite sex feels like means you are that sex.

Born in the wrong body is a ludicrous phrase. And so offensive to disabled people - how careless of them to be born in their body.

Kellie Jay engaged in a battle of wits with an unarmed man there. James Max embarrassed himself.

All the new speak teaching in the world, MrsM can't overcome a strong woman laughing and saying no.

Oh I know. And this is what needs to happen - people need to see that they are allowed to think, and to object to nonsense that can't be defended, and stand up to it.

My point is that Max is not saying all this because he's a total idiot. (He may be but it's irrelevant.) He's saying it because he thinks it is what he is meant to think and has been told to think, not just by some deluded individuals, but by many in authority. It's like growing up in a religion. For many it's just the truth, even if they can't see how it makes sense, they don't question that.

You need to be able to define something to feel /identify as it anyway wouldn't u?

Given a definition is lacking what are they even apparently feeling.

I don’t think trans people literally feel, have a sensation, they are the opposite sex. Rather, I think they have a feeling they would be happier and would very much like to be the opposite sex, and are distressed because their body doesn’t match what they want. But the idea that they literally feel like the opposite sex, literally feel they have a vagina when they have a penis, is implausible to me. Or maybe Im just really struggling to understand it because I’m overthinking it. In any case , I agree that their feelings does not actually make them the opposite sex.

I'll add to that, in case John etc join in.

I also wouldn't dream of telling any trans individual that they were not trans. How they feel, their sense of self is not mine to police.

But that sense, those feelings, end at the end of their nose. They have not right whatsoever to demand that I acquiesce and agree that they have actually changed sex.

When your sense of self demands to override the rights of others, logic and science it is you that has to stop and reconsider. Not the rest of the world.

And IW has firmly stepped into that alternative universe in order to make some comments.

Such homophobia... Apparently when Posie said that it is accepted by some that being gay can be innate or a choice she was being homophobic. Given that the research she quoted included first hand reports from gay people who chose to be gay later in life I'd definitely say it is IW being homophobic. Ignoring the words of gay people explaining their own experience, feelings, sexual orientation.

And as I too know some gay people who were happily straight until they met A N Other and decided not to ignore their feelings I wouldn't dream of telling them they were always gay/ bi / in denial!

I have no doubt that some people do feel as if they are the opposite sex to their body. The problem is when wider society decides that this feeling in a man's head is what a woman actually is, and that it is more important to pander to men with this feeling than to address the needs of actual women.

He’s retweeted someone who said:
“Given the unfathomable complexity of the human machine (and our relative ignorance of it) I have zero problem imagining a condition where someone 'feels' they are one sex while their body displays another. “

What does this MEAN, though? How is it possible to “feel” like one sex when your body is another? The entire thing rests on this crazy proposition that ones sex is a feeling. The only reason this view continues to be popular is because of the sexist assumption that women have different minds, brains and thoughts.

I also find it fascinating that the public discourse is stuck on this quite old fashioned view that trans people are stuck in the wrong bodies. It was good of Pp to point out that in fact most transwomen do not alter their bodies. The public debate is seriously lagging behind.

His crib sheets were of no use, were they?

All the new speak teaching in the world, MrsM can't overcome a strong woman laughing and saying no.

What seemed to throw him most was she only said no. She didn't try to explain in depth or to counter every point. She just laughed and said no!

He only voiced the accepted views of all that cleave to the TWAW mantra.

But people are being told this as if it's a medical fact, via stonewall "training" of so many organisations, it's coming from school, the police, even as he said some doctors.

I'm not defending him, but I think we need to understand that thinking this way is very common because people are being told to think this way. That is exactly why parents are willingly encouraging their kids to be subjected to such appalling harms. Because they think this is true and so that's what they need.

I love her. She's so strong and inspiring.