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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kellie Jay on Talk Radio with James Max

442 replies

Mollyollydolly · 29/12/2021 12:32

Worth a watch. How much do men hate women who say 'no'. When speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1476131289870778374

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9
Helleofabore · 30/12/2021 11:06

He certainly talked a lot with DH. In fact, I think he talked more than he let them talk. But maybe that was the cropping on the clip on twitter.

While I don’t agree with debbieinbirmingham on everything, they have been consistent and they do make sure the message about two sexes gets across.

However, that Max fella is a bellend and needs to apologise to KJK. What he said to her was nasty and very unprofessional as an interviewer. All because he ‘felt uncomfortable’ in the truth.

He still hasn’t admitted his trivialisation of women’s need for single sex spaces as being the same as ‘club’ membership.

FFS he told DH that he, Max, didn’t quite think DH had correctly positioned the trans activists’ demands? So… even a trans right activist for how many years has not got it right in that arrogant-arse-who -obviously-knows-better-than- everyone’s eyes.

WTAF?

yestheyhavethesamedad · 30/12/2021 11:01

@ArabellaScott Don't think India has been on ,but they have been tweeting about how james annihilated Posie , and showed her up completely and disproved every one of her points , of course India had to lie about what was said to justify their claims 🙄

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 10:52

@JellySaurus

He said something along the lines of "If your secure in yourself, like I know that I'm a man, how can you understand how people who don't feel that way are in their heads?" He may even have said "You're not in their heads". Why didn't Posy reply "How can men know they're women? They're not in women's heads or bodies."? It's an obvious discrepancy.

Trans people are always saying "You don't know what it's like to be us!" Well they don't know what it's like to be us, either. Or to be them, in the case of TM.

Very true.
catzwhiskas · 30/12/2021 10:52

Fantastic clear facts from KellieJay. Handled every idiotic point exceptionally well. I would like her to say that we don’t change laws on the basis of feelings, and what about our discomfort etc. But this deserves five gold stars.

JellySaurus · 30/12/2021 10:34

He said something along the lines of "If your secure in yourself, like I know that I'm a man, how can you understand how people who don't feel that way are in their heads?" He may even have said "You're not in their heads". Why didn't Posy reply "How can men know they're women? They're not in women's heads or bodies."? It's an obvious discrepancy.

Trans people are always saying "You don't know what it's like to be us!" Well they don't know what it's like to be us, either. Or to be them, in the case of TM.

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 10:19

It's trending on Twitter in the United Kingdom right now. Can anyone else see that?

HipTightOnions · 30/12/2021 10:00

I just caught the very end of this morning's segment.

(Well done Ulrika.)

Did anyone hear the rest?

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 09:53

Julie Bindel*

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 09:52

@tinyrebel

That isn't really Posie' opinion - it's what she's gathered from listening to a variety of lesbians.

Read up on political lesbianism and what Julie Binder has to say on the matter of choice.

Some lesbians don't like people saying they were born gay as it makes it sound like it's a disease, something bad that they can't help, and therefore we must be sympathetic to them based on that alone.

Instead some gay and lesbian people like to say they choose their life as they find it more life-affirming and don't see anything wrong with choosing to be homosexual.

PronounssheRa · 30/12/2021 09:48

I completely agree with Mimmymum that he is using the issue to increase his audience. As are TalkRadio, I see they've pinned Posie's interview on Twitter.

I agree with mimmy too, which begs the question which one of us needs to be denounced and cancelled 😆

The pinned tweet does James no favours, like they are trolling him.

Menofsteel · 30/12/2021 09:47

I loved every second of this. I adore Kellie. When I was raped I reached out to Standing for Women and she was emailing me for a while. When I met her in person she held me (both crying) and she said something that I will never forget. She said, “women like you are always on my mind. If you weren’t, why would I fucking bother?” Then all 4 foot 11 of her strutted off like she owned the place 🤣. Same vibe on the interview. Utter strength and dignity from her. He came across like a tired child arguing about being told it’s bedtime.

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 09:47

[quote PronounssheRa]According to twitter Debbie Hayton is on this AM.

In other news mimmybirthingparent isn't happy with James, mimmy also believes James is using this topic to raise his own profile. mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1476482024705867776[/quote]
Yes I think that too @PronounssheRa

I don't think he cares about either side. It's simply entertaining debate fodder to him where he gets to talk down to women and get clicks for it.

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2021 09:41
  • I completely agree with Mimmymum that he is using the issue to increase his audience. As are TalkRadio, I see they've pinned Posie's interview on Twitter.

Saying the quiet part out loud, eh?

Has India been on yet?

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2021 09:37

Oh joy! James Max is the gift that keeps on giving!

PronounssheRa · 30/12/2021 09:25

According to twitter Debbie Hayton is on this AM.

In other news mimmybirthingparent isn't happy with James, mimmy also believes James is using this topic to raise his own profile. mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1476482024705867776

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2021 09:16

Some people don't want the discussion to move forward. They want women to shut up and go away.

hesaidshesaidtheysaid · 30/12/2021 09:07

@NotBadConsidering
And Posie didn’t say being gay is exclusively a choice, she said you’re either born gay or some people like Sheila Jeffries, who she mentioned by name, feel you can choose. She was the opposite of being homophobic, because she respects the opinions of those like Jeffries.

I pointed this fact out last night to India Willoughby on twitter as they had misquoted Posie as saying being gay is a choice, I corrected India that Posie had said 'some' people. I was then accused of being homophobic by India and subsequently blocked.
How can this conversation moved forward if the stance of so many is to accuse people of being 'phobic then blocked from further discussion?!

Ezydoesit · 30/12/2021 08:48

I agree that some (a very small minority) people ‘choose’ to be gay. Although I’m not sure that is the best word (maybe ‘prefer’?)

I know someone who was bisexual for many years, who has now declared herself to be gay. I think for her, that sexuality is a spectrum and (for now, maybe forever?) it seems her pointer is directed towards the homosexual end of the spectrum.

ChristmasPlanning · 30/12/2021 08:27

@NancyDrawed

There are so many good bits..

1.04

KJK: I don't think any man can ever become a woman, no.

JM: So, then, there's the problem, isn't it?

KJK: What? Not lying?

JM: Well, it's not a question of not lying, it's a question of not necessarily understanding - that somebody can be born in somebody else's body. In the sense that you can be born physically a man or a woman, but inside you may be - and it has been recognised - that you might yourself an opposing sex in terms of how your brain works. Are you saying that that person should be discriminated against for the rest of their life because of the physicality of it?

KJK: No, I'm saying that what you have said there is absolute nonsense. There's no way that you can be...you ARE your body, there is no separation between your biological sex.

JM: No, no I'm sorry. I'm afraid that's wrong.

KJK: No (shakes head and laughs). In what possible way would the DNA of a human build all the cells one sex, except a tiny little bit of a brain that would be a different sex?

JM: Well, that's not necessarily... I mean, are you an expert in this?

My favourite part. He is a buffoon!
HoardingSamphireSaurus · 30/12/2021 08:04

@Snoozer11

I have trouble with the "choosing to be gay" part of the interview.

I understand it's only a small part, but PP has often struck me as being slightly homophobic and this doesn't help.

Being gay isn't a choice, and it is obscenely homophobic to suggest it is. I think a lot of sensible people will have been turned off when she mentioned that. Doesn't help with the "bigot" accusations.

Of course, the interviewer seemed like a total twat and she rightly wiped the floor with him in all other respects.

Do you think my friend lied to me?
PronounssheRa · 30/12/2021 07:48

James Max is sending out multiple self satisfied-sounding tweets. It now looks like it's all a bit of a publicity stunt to boost his rating. At first I thought he was just extremely stupid; now I think he's plain nasty and glorying in his two minutes of social media fame.

I think there is a fair bit of truth to this. He clearly knows little about the subject, KJK made him look foolish, but its got people talking about him

Bosky · 30/12/2021 07:41

SantaClawsServiette - "I'm sorry to say that I suspect some of these people are genuine.

I was struck at a recent right-think training event at my workplace how some of the other employees were just blown away by the material. They thought it was amazing, enlightening, they'd never thought about these things. They assumed the trainer had some kind of real higher knowledge to offer.

I can tell you, none of it was at that level, mostly it was pretty trite."

I can believe that. I witnessed people soak up arrant nonsense uncritically like sponges when I worked in the NHS. The worst were people working in HR but clinical staff can also be prey to unblinking acceptance of batshit notions that are given undeserved credence by being promulgated in official training sessions.

The "trainers" do not necessarily have a clue about what they are teaching either, due to the "training the trainers" initiative whereby displaced admin/HR staff are redeployed to deliver "training packages" in subjects they know absolutely nothing about. That Max character reacted the same way they would when challenged: shuffle nervously through lesson plan to find place in script and repeat whatever nonsense they had previously babbled.

Anyway, what I really came here for was to share the link to the TalkRadio YouTube video, as it includes an extra 3 mins of Max spraying bullshit and Kellie-Jay hitting him over the head with a frying pan Grin

James Max is a Trustee of the Royal Albert Hall - impressive CV so he cannot be excused as a dunce:

James Max BSc (Hons) MRICS

"James was elected as a Trustee in February 2012 and chairs the Marketing and PR Committee. He is also a member of the Programming and Philanthropy committees. He presents the Business Breakfast show on talkRADIO every weekday morning, is a columnist for the FT and Spectator and a regular contributor on Sky News, Channel 5 and on Radio 2. In the past has presented on LBC, BBC Radio London and TalkSPORT. He is also an advisor on strategy and investor and media relations to a number of companies in the real estate sector. Until 2017 he was an Executive Director and on the UK Board of BNP Paribas Real Estate and regularly acts as an advisor to the developer, Stanhope. He trained as a chartered surveyor at Cushman & Wakefield (formerly known as DTZ), was an investment banker at Morgan Stanley and subsequently head of UK activities for the Doughty Hanson & Co Real Estate Fund before pursuing a portfolio career in media, real estate and finance. James is also chairman of the Frinton-on-Sea Lawn Tennis Club and a committee member for the Ultimate News Quiz which raises money for two well-known children’s charities."

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Extract from James Max's interview with Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull:

7:39
KJK: Well if i want to go in a female only space and there's men in there who decide that they're women, then it's no longer a female only space is it?

JM: But then men were told, but they wanted to have men only places and then they were told that that was discrimination, they weren't allowed to do it.

KJK: So men were unsafe now they can't have golf clubs?

JM: Well it's not a question of, it's not a question of safe, it's just that it's cake and eating it, isn't it?

=====

James writes a column for the Financial Times called, "Rich People's Problems".

www.ft.com/stream/7db30e07-43e9-4ec5-8e88-e453f7ccf182

"Rich People’s Problems: Are private members’ clubs worth it?"
JANUARY 26, 2018

Extract

The truth is, I have a club problem — although not of the Presidents variety. (The four private members’ clubs that I belong to won’t support boorish, sexist or homophobic behaviour.)

Even if the property industry in which I have spent so much of my career is often locked in the moral dark ages, my expenditure is more wholesome. Yet the subs still drain my bank account.

As a freelancer, the whole concept of a club that’s open late, offers WiFi and flexible working space is very compelling. I don’t need an office to do my job, but I do need to meet people. All the time. WeWork will tell you that its business model will wipe out the private member’s club. I disagree. The only barrier to entry at a club is the sky-high fee. There’s no filter and part of the allure of a private member’s club is the waft of celebrity, notoriety or exclusivity.

Looking at my bank statements, Soho House is staying. Not only is its London offer superb, it would be too much to bear if I wasn’t able to bomb off to Oxfordshire to the Farmhouse — ostensibly, Center Parcs for people who shop at Waitrose. Anyway, the £1,650 annual membership fee is good value, payable in November and already done.

What about the clubs I don’t use so much? The Carlton Club, for example, is a lovely bufty tufty old place in St James’s. I have been a member for 25 years. If you wander around its curiously decorated, high-ceilinged old school rooms, with portraits of once-great politicians hanging resplendently, you might wonder if this is an old folks’ home for rich people or a waiting room for Dignitas.

And then there’s the dress code. The Carlton insists gentlemen must wear jackets and ties (if there is “exceptionally hot weather” then jackets can be removed in the Wellington Room or on the terrace).

I don’t like ties. And I rarely have time for lunches that start at noon and end at 6pm, but on balance the £1,542 they swept from my account on January 2 is money well spent. The food is economically priced and delicious, the house claret is exquisite and the ability to sink occasionally into an armchair for a snooze after lunch makes life worth living.

And then there’s the Queen’s Tennis Club which costs me £2,020 a year. But they have a great annual tennis tournament. It is worth it for that alone (I told you I had a problem!)

A good members’ club is about more than this. It helps with connections. Business is still about who you know, not what you know.

A few years ago, I joined a West End club called Century. At the time it was quite groovy. It’s been through many iterations over the years and recently on a visit I realised that it was nothing more than a smartish bar with average food and no interesting members. Ding. It’s gone. Is that enough of a cut? Of course not.

Since I am committed to my other establishments, the solution is clear. I’ll simply have to get more work. Any offers? I know a good club where we can go for lunch.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210524175828/www.ft.com/content/130f4ea6-01c1-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210524175828/www.ft.com/content/130f4ea6-01c1-11e8-9e12-af73e8db3c71

The Carlton Club

Membership to one of London’s leading members only clubs is open to both ladies and gentlemen.

Q: How do I join?

A: Candidates should be proposed and seconded by two existing Members who have themselves been Members for two years and have known you for two years. After consideration by the Scrutiny Committee, candidates’ names are entered into the Candidates’ Book where they must remain for at least two months before going forward for election. The procedure is the same for both UK and Overseas candidates.

Queens Club

Similar membership application rules to The Carlton.

====

I wonder how many Ladies are members of The Carlton and Queens Club, which as Max says, "helps with connections. Business is still about who you know, not what you know"?

Presumably James's clubs all have mixed-sex changing rooms and toilets? If not, he must surely be lobbying his clubs to institute them? After all, why should those dratted Ladies and daughters of members have their cake and eat it??

Leafstamp · 30/12/2021 07:24

Apologies if already posted, KJ has written up the experience in The Spectator:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-men-cannot-ever-know-what-it-is-to-be-a-woman

Leafstamp · 30/12/2021 07:21

[quote Appledrop]Have noticed people adding their review of the discussion, primarily of James Max to talkradio's trustpilot grin uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.talkradio.co.uk[/quote]
Genius!

Clicky link (I hope): uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.talkradio.co.uk

AlfonsoTheGoat · 30/12/2021 02:35

I love Kellie-Jay's courage and intelligence.