"What are your pronouns?" Best response for a 14 yo?

There are many trans people not 'out' yet and forcing them to answer this question would result in either making them lie/misgender themselves or making them come out.

Perhaps her friend needs to understand that demanding people identify themselves is not in keeping with the be kind aesthetic.

If your colleagues correct you or object, see how convincing they find the "it's my choice" argument. And when it gets back to your male colleague - which such strange behaviour inevitably well - tell him about how you get to choose. And he'll tell you that's absolute bullshit, since it plainly clearly is

Choosing to use pronouns contrary to the usual centuries-old convention, ie aligned with sex, would indeed be strange behaviour and bullshit.

We may of course choose to accept other peoples 'strange behaviours' as a courtesy.

I’m also not sure that’s the emoji I was looking for 😂

[quote ItIsntWhatYouThinkItIs]@barleybadminton Marriage isn't a feminist issue. It isn't a patriachal issue. It is a LEGAL issue. It is about legal recognition and protection.

It's simple politeness, unless you want your kid to grow up to be the kind of obnoxious entitled brat

Wow. I think you are the one who sounds like an obnoxious entitled brat here. If someone tells you their name, you address them as their name. If someone says their name is Mary, you would address them as Mary. Nothing else is needed, is there. Pronouns are superfluous and unnecessary.[/quote]
...and if their name is Mary, they can stil be a man. And that is fine. Having a traditionally female name doesn't magically make you female.

Thank you, Roaring, for that eloquent and spot on post.

And I think, Delirium, that a redacted silence is surely an oxymoron and negates itself, hence me sticking to yr usual name is correct?

My 14 year old would just laugh and say something along the lines of "I'm not a pronoun person" (that's what she calls the gender woo lot) - but then she doesn't really give a toss.

In fact I don’t need to change my username I’ll stick with this one but please refer to me as The Redacted Silence.

I like the idea of The Redacted Silence.

Shame I can’t remember my password for MN.

If pronouns are such a problem for you and your daughter, how come you've referred to her as she/her throughout this post? Could it be that those are her pronouns?

Pronouns themselves aren’t the problem, Blueberry, as I’m sure you know. OP doubtless knows better than most that her DD is female and therefore it’s pretty obvious that she would use female pronouns for her.

Once again (yet again!) the problem is with normalising the use of pronouns that are used to designate people of the opposite sex to that which the person being referred to is; normalising the idea that someone who is clearly male can and should be seen as a woman if he so wishes; normalising the idea that everyone has a “gender” which is solely determined by how they feel about themselves (and apparently entirely based on regressive, restrictive stereotypes) - and that this “gender identity” overrides biological sex. And the overriding of women’s and girls’ boundaries, the male appropriation of things set aside for women as the more vulnerable and disadvantaged of the two sex classes that that entails.

Why is it so hard for you to break the habit of male oppression of females?

I can only conclude that you don’t truly see (biologically) female people as fully human, that you don’t see the suffering and oppression inflicted upon female people by male people across the millennia the whole world over as human suffering. It really doesn’t seem to matter to you. Perhaps we really are just service humans in your eyes, here to facilitate the lives of (biologically) male “first sex” people.

Because I can’t see how anyone who really took in and understood the wrongs that have been done to women (aka biologically female people) across the ages, and are still being done, by men (aka biologically male people), and who cared anything about social justice and wanted to see the world a better, kinder, safer place for humanity in general - I don’t see how anyone in that category could even begin to think of opposing any of the things that go some way towards redressing the balance for women in this misogynistic, patriarchal world, such as single sex spaces, services, and sports.

I don’t see how anyone in that category could not want to provide women (biologically female people) as a class with the maximum of safety, of opportunity, of anything that would mitigate against the great harms that have been done and continue to be done to women on the basis of our sex.

But breaking down women’s rights to those things seems to be your sole objective, by any means necessary, including promoting this “preferred pronoun” culture, especially among young people.

It does not reflect well on you, IMO.

So if OP chose to refer to her DD as a "he" this would be fine also, since it's OP's choice? In that scenario does DD have no right to say "uhh actually it's she" because they're not her pronouns?

Well, I doubt OP would do this - because her DD is a girl.

Not because "she" is "her pronoun".

Bed now…thats also the rufus way

I always use requested pronouns and names

Thats the rufus way

Oooh apologies blue

Give me a sec to read your post

Right im off to bed

I literally spat baileys all, over my ipad…it went down the wrong way

Night all

You know what, this is so obviously ridiculous I don't know how you can say it with a straight face. Try referring to the next woman you interact with as "he" in her hearing. Or the next man you interact with as "she". Then when they correct you, you
tell them it's your choice to call them whatever you want. See how well that goes down.

Or if you want to do it the Rufus way, pick a male work colleague and persistently refer to him as "she" behind his back. If your colleagues correct you or object, see how convincing they find the "it's my choice" argument. And when it gets back to your male colleague - which such strange behaviour inevitably well - tell him about how you get to choose. And he'll tell you that's absolute bullshit, since it plainly clearly is.

You literally said ‘how come you've referred to her as she/her throughout this post?*

Whether OP refers to her daughter as he or she it doesnt matter as the daughter isn’t on mumsnet

And actually if she talks about her daughter to friends again it doesnt matter as daughter is not there

So if OP chose to refer to her DD as a "he" this would be fine also, since it's OP's choice? In that scenario does DD have no right to say "uhh actually it's she" because they're not her pronouns

If shes not on mumsnet how would she know?

'Private' is normally my response.

If pronouns are such a problem for you and your daughter, how come you've referred to her as she/her throughout this post? Could it be that those are her pronouns?

They're not "her pronouns". OP chose them all by herself, presumably on account of her DD being female.