How to tackle school

My take is that the regulations state single sex toilets/changing rooms in schools for children over 8. As putting a trans girl in a boys changing room could be classed as direct gender reassignment discrimination it’s not an option. Similarly this person using the girls facilities causes a conflict between sex and gender reassignment legislation. The best option is an alternative space. It’s okay for a trans person to change name, pronouns, uniform as this has little or no impact on other pupils but this definitely does. If I remember correctly both Oxford and Warwickshire (I think) had cases brought against them about similar issues and they quickly changed things when it came to the media’s attention. When it comes to children people aren’t so sympathetic.

I cited the recent legal case which proves conclusively it's within the law, AEA vs EHRC.

Oh this?

Where does any of that relate to children and teens at school?

Are 12 year old boys transsexuals? Definitely not adults.

Why are you insisting that adult males with or without GRC legally access girls' changing rooms?

transsafety.network/posts/aea-v-cehr/

Unfortunately not - it is considerably broader than that:

A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex

This was hotly contested recently in Scotland where IIRC it boiled down to 'other attributes of sex' in terms of who qualified as a woman (on public panels) being reduced to linguistics:

“always using female pronouns; using a female name on official documents such as a driving licence or passport, or on utility bills or bank accounts; describing themselves and being described by others in written or other communication using female language.”

(from murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/04/21/shifting-sands-on-the-definition-of-woman-in-scots-law-the-journey-of-the-gender-representation-on-public-boards-act-from-consultation-to-implementation/ )

Our school policy specifically states that the fact that pupils who identify as trans change their name and which uniform items they wear gives them the PC of gender reassignment

That's a good point Nancy and one the op.coukd keep up their sleeve if they find out the policy says that.

As far as I understand it Gender reassignment in the protected characteristics means anyone with a GRC therefore doesn't mean self IDing children.

I also want to know what happens with the children who identify as non binary - which facilities do they use and why?

Anyone else very interested to see if the anticipated EHRC guidance due soon will make all this very very clear?

Yes. There's a growing realisation at the heart of government that this is a mess. The EHRC has been promising guidelines for 5 years (maybe longer). The spectacularly awful (now withdrawn) CPS guidelines were an insight into how activists could write misogynistic completely impractical advice for schools with massive safeguarding problems on every page.

I suspect that 3rd spaces will be the solution - which of course raises its own logistical, practical and safeguarding challenges for schools. There'll be lots of huffing and puffing from the usual suspects - but it will be an education to hear them justify why "transitioning" boys must have access to girls undressing

The only training available OnceuponaRainbow18 is from self interested adult groups desperate to enforce their world view on schools. And a captured education establishment in thrall to these groups and demonstrating a lack of care for the rights of girls.

The Safe Schools materials need to be shared with every leadership and pastoral care team in schools. This can't be allowed to continue, no matter how earnestly certain adults insist that girls and their privacy matter nothing in the quest for boys self identifying as girls to be validated by sharing spaces with them as they undress.

[quote OnceuponaRainbow18]@Sickofpineneedles

5. What training has the school had to manage difficult situations like this, who delivered this training.

In my school absolutely nothing!![/quote]
That's interesting and must be difficult.

I thought asking that might highlight if they have had dodgy advice.

Anyone else very interested to see if the anticipated EHRC guidance due soon will make all this very very clear?

I am very tired of some poster’s attempts to keep leveraging males into female single sex spaces. Why does anyone think it appropriate for a Year 12 male to be in a changing area with 11/12 year old females ?

That the poster thinks there is nothing amiss with it shows the lack of experience being a teenaged girl and/or parenting a teenaged girl. Because that poster is incapable of considering a teenaged female’s needs (whatever gender identity that female believes fits them).

It is the same for all threads whether it is that poster advocating for children to use puberty blockers, or access to single sex spaces. The advocacy is never properly considered from the female perspective.

@Sickofpineneedles

5. What training has the school had to manage difficult situations like this, who delivered this training.

In my school absolutely nothing!!

Argh caught the post button.

If they raise the child is trans then see the point above.

It's very stupid of the school to put both the female and male children at risk like this. Despite What others like to think Safeguarding is not about being kind or affirming anyone's feelings.

As others have said look up the school's policy, see if it actually is legal or some lobby groups interpretation of how they would like the law to be. Keep that information in you back pocket particularly if it was stonewall as you can then later raise some of the issues around them.

Then I wouldn't ask for a meeting I'd do everything in writing as much as possible.

So some questions:

1. Why is male child allowed to change with much younger female children?
2. With our awareness growing of peer on peer abuse what safeguarding has been put in place to protect both the male and female children involved.
3. What risk assessments have taken place.
4. What assessment has taken place from perspective of the female children has consideration been given to their dignity and privacy. Why does this boy's feelings over ride the girls?
5. What training has the school had to manage difficult situations like this, who delivered this training.
6. Why have parents not been informed of this?

Those should give you the basis of something you can bulk out.
I suspect the school will probably write back with a generic be kind and quiet letter.
In which case I'd be pointing out that no child can have a GRC and that neither can they have surgery therefore they are still male.

If they raise the child is trans then

Trans people ARE the opposite sex - that’s why they’re called trans.

If a trans woman really was a biological woman, then she wouldn’t be a trans woman. She’d be a woman.

(Love your username )

We all have to become that parent - respectfully but assertively.

This.....

We need to stop putting safeguarding aside for fear of being labelled transphobic or being unkind.

We fail our children when we do this.

Remaining silent is not a neutral act.

It's being complicit in an ideology that's deeply damaging to both children who are recipients of trans affirmation (both socially - in respect they need to learn their rights do not supersede that of others if they are to have healthy positive relationships - and medically if they go down that path) and children who are forced to accept/believe that their rights/dignity are lesser than those of trans status.

The latter applies especially to girls who are already socialised to "please" others (especially men) in virtually every aspect of their lives.

Taking away the right to single sex privacy in a changing room is no small thing.

It's a gross erosion of boundaries that can potentially cause a significant and damaging shift in a child's perception of what's appropriate/normal to expect as a female, especially when in a vulnerable state.

I'd be livid. Hope you manage to get it sorted OP

Parents speaking up is the first thing EarlyModernEnglish A minority of parents of troubled children are told that it is essential that everyone else affirms their child. This puts everyone in a difficult position and not wanting to be unkind - hence the needs, rights and safety of everyone else, especially girls gets abandoned.

But there are competing rights and no matter how often we're told that this group's rights transcend everyone else's - it's not true.
Girls have the right to undress, sleep, shower away from the male gaze. Schools only follow Stonewall law because it's not been challenged - until now. Few schools will insist on male born students undressing alongside girls if parents speak out. That's why the EHRC technical guidance I quoted earlier suggests 3rd spaces. Because they know that forced mixed sex nakedness for children is unacceptable.

We all have to become that parent - respectfully but assertively.

There is no requirement for single sex spaces to exclude trans people
Unless you mean trans men in female spaces and trans women in males' (which I doubt you do), then this is a contradiction of terms. A single sex space excludes trans people of the opposite sex by definition.

what power do parents actually have ?

Take a step at a time and do so as professionally as possible. Then escalate it as needs be. Most schools don’t/won’t want to dig their heels in.

Read the school Complaints Policy and guidance here: safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/#How_to_Complain_to_your_Childs_School

It generally happens with sports clubs OnceuponaRainbow18 which are often mixed age. And the very rare timetable clash but then generally schools will ensure that older / younger students are kept separated.

I’d also question why year 12s are changing at same time as younger students any way… our school doesn’t Allow this… neither did any I have worked at

Doesn't matter that the girls are upset though.

Blueberry We've interpreted the same words differently.

But from the same legal feminist piece:

EHRC agrees that women only space does not have to include anyone who is male at birth, and described prescriptive inclusion policies along the lines of self-ID as “directly inconsistent” with the Code of Practice

and

The judge strongly agreed with the EHRC that a better challenge would have been brought by an individual service user against an individual service provider, rather than in the abstract at the level of the EHRC and the AEA

Which doesn't sound like

'The judge explicitly said AEA's challenge was not arguable because it was "wrong in law"

to me

I suppose I should go and read the actual judgement again, rather than relying on someone else's interpretation, but I am not legally trained.

Either way, the EA allows for single sex spaces as posted earlier by TheInebriati

It's still a no.
I reckon hell will freeze over before parents allow their daughters to be forced to undress in front of unknown males in schools. It's only got this far because of the gaslighting of girls to accept they have no right to say no and keeping it a secret from parents.

No is a complete sentence.