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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How I became Gender Critical

81 replies

SapphosRock · 20/12/2021 16:39

This is a great article and really reflects my experience. Especially the slow realisation that Stonewall and the rainbow flag no longer represented me. Can anyone else relate?

https://duncanhenry.substack.com/p/tra-to-gc

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WorriedMumsDontSleep · 21/12/2021 19:39

I'm interested if anyone was GC right from the start? Or did everyone start out supporting trans rights until they clocked what it actually meant?
I didn't realise I was GC when I watched butterfly with my husband and I said, if that was my own child I would just ignore stereotypes and allow them to wear as much pink and sparkles as they like without resorting to surgery. I didn't realise that tra would have a problem with this stance.
I didn't realise what was being asked for. In one year I both shared an article about how girls were being pushed out of their sports by males and one about two spirit showing how trans is innate.
I didn't use my critical thinking skills to realise that if I reject stereotypes and support women it clashes with trans people's aims, as their aims were misrepresented as similar to the gay rights movement-ie. Free to live in peace etc.

JK made me realise that holding my boring, unremarkable view that biology is the only thing that we need separate faculties, sports and services was seen as transphobic.

So whilst I remember vividly arguing for trans rights to be allowed to express themselves, on social media, and would have described myself as an ally, I didn't realise that they didn't want allys like me.

Their loss.

Linguini · 21/12/2021 19:23

I'm interested if anyone was GC right from the start?

I used to think all born male people who wanted to be seen as women by society were those (rare) extreme types who go through surgeries and are very effeminate. They deserve to be recognised as women because of the lengths of effort they've endured.

I thought all transwomen were like Blaire White basically. That we just couldn't tell.

I believed that transwomen are using women's spaces all the time, we simply don't notice them because they blend in so inconspicuously, and how could anyone make them use male spaces. That'd be like asking me to use a male space.

I used to think.

prudencepuffin · 21/12/2021 18:16

It takes a proper grown up to consider the opposing view, do some research and change your mind publicly and back down. Something I know i find difficult and admire it when other people can do it. This TRA movement is shitty to all women but the height of shitty towards lesbian women and the betrayal they must feel towards Stonewall who have turned their backs on lesbians, must be off the scale.

Marzipano · 21/12/2021 18:01

I'm interested if anyone was GC right from the start? Or did everyone start out supporting trans rights until they clocked what it actually meant?

I think for feminists and left-leaning people, the almost universal starting point is a reflexive be kind and support this opressed group. Some people figure it out sooner than others of course!

Possibly conservative or religious types arrive at something like a GC view from another direction.

Delphinium20 · 21/12/2021 17:37

@FuriousAndFrustrated Thanksbecause I can't imagine the stress you went through. I don't know if I could forgive either.

SapphosRock · 21/12/2021 17:05

@Linguini I have no idea why your comment was deleted it wasn't at all offensive

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Linguini · 21/12/2021 16:53

ScraggyThang I appreciated him coming from a different perspective and I have to say, this essay is possibly one that could change some of my friends rigid views.

I agree.

Linguini · 21/12/2021 16:50

The risks of coming out as GC in the LGBT community are very high.

Oh my god my comment was deleted for pointing out the difficulties faced by LGB people who are GC.

SapphosRock · 21/12/2021 13:51

You are welcome catzwhiskas

I'm interested if anyone was GC right from the start? Or did everyone start out supporting trans rights until they clocked what it actually meant?

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catzwhiskas · 21/12/2021 11:03

Thank you SapphosRock for your account of how your views shifted. I remember you on this board a while back when you were presenting the be kind argument, and it must have been difficult to hear what we were saying. But then you looked and learned and experienced what we were talking about. And came back on to tell us why you changed position,and I thank you for that, as a lesbian who is depressed by other lesbians who have not been able to reject the TRA ideology.

SapphosRock · 21/12/2021 10:53

I agree that reporting you was a massive dick move FuriousAndFrustrated

However, I can also understand Duncan's righteous rage. A few years ago I got into a similar war of words with a high profile feminist on Twitter, I was convinced she was in the wrong and causing harm to poor, defenseless trans people.

I cringe about it really hard now. I doubt she remembers our exchange but if she does then I owe her a big apology.

I think Duncan has been brave to publicly admit he was so wrong and even if you can't forgive him then at least you can feel vindicated.

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Scraggythang · 21/12/2021 09:32

Massive dick move to report you @FuriousAndFrustrated also further proof that Stonewall has turned the whole movement into a cult. People are so absolutely sure they are the good and the righteous, that this is tolerance and kindness, everyone else is hateful and need to be dealt with.

I remember Duncan on Twitter. He put up with a fair amount of abuse. I appreciated him coming from a different perspective and I have to say, this essay is possibly one that could change some of my friends rigid views. Voices from the LGB community are very insightful and important. Especially as most men were on the side of “be kind” before the penny dropped.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 21/12/2021 09:23

Duncan Henry says he realised the gaslighting of lesbians — demanding that they accept transwomen as sexual partners — is a form of ‘conversion therapy’.

I agree, but the trans lobby has twisted the meaning of ‘conversion therapy’ to include include counselling for young people who are convinced they are trans, and want drugs and/or surgery to affirm their identity. Counselling gives them a chance to think these life-changing interventions through first.

The government is currently considering extending the present restrictions on conversion therapy to limit what therapists can do to help people like Keira Bell avoid making a life-changing mistake.

If you want to give kids this chance, let the government know. The consultation is at
www.gov.uk/government/consultations/banning-conversion-therapy

FuriousAndFrustrated · 21/12/2021 08:10

He did apologise, via a mutual acquaintance. He couldn't apologise directly as I had blocked him everywhere. (And still have him blocked!)

We no longer work at the same organisation, so I don't have to come into contact with him . Mind you, we hadn't worked together for years even before this, and yet he still felt inclined to try to get me into trouble. I just can't understand the mentality of "you must agree with me or I'll try to get you sacked."

Abitofalark · 20/12/2021 22:47

Thanks for posting Sapphos. We've seen similar accounts from other women, with all the same intimidation and taking over of lesbian groups. There's been a bit of a complicated history with women and Stonewall or its predecessor campaigners. I always felt that it was essentially a men's movement even when gay women decided to join it and even though they've had women in prominent positions. But the way it's turned out in the last five years has been disastrous for women.

SapphosRock · 20/12/2021 22:41

Oh definitely. The risks of coming out as GC in the LGBT community are very high.

I used to think there was a way to be a feminist and a trans ally, and I used to think there was middle ground and compromise.

The TRAs have proved that is impossible and they are unwilling to concede anything at all. Women and lesbians are not permitted to have anything for themselves. We are not allowed to speak for ourselves or voice any opinions unless we are cheerleading trans rights.

Anyone who steps out of line or speaks up for women's rights is relentlessly bullied, harassed and threatened. Or simply cancelled.

I've been blocked from most lesbian groups now, the AGP males are still in them of course.

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Linguini · 20/12/2021 22:30

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SapphosRock · 20/12/2021 22:11

My experience is very similar. I'm a lesbian and always felt Stonewall supported and represented me. When they added the T onto LGB I was all for it. Why wouldn't I want to be a good ally to another minority group?

I truly didn't see an issue in recognising trans women as women. The trans women I knew were committed to fully transitioning and I couldn't see what threats they would pose.

Then trans activists started terrorising women in my town, bullying and threatening them out of their jobs. (charity bosses, cafe owners, we all know what happened to Kathleen Stock)

Every lesbian group I was in was overtaken by trans activists. Diva magazine started publishing articles written by an AGP male 'lesbian' who wrote of feeling aroused wearing his older sister's used knickers.

Trans women started winning in female sports, claiming women's prizes, lesbians were transphobic for not taking trans women as partners. Stonewall abandoned lesbians.

The final straw was discovering all the women's refuges and centres in my area has been captured and overtaken by TRAs.

And here I am. Gender Critical.

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Abitofalark · 20/12/2021 21:47

You can't promise that, Sapphos. On the other hand if you wrote of your own experience, that would be different.

SapphosRock · 20/12/2021 21:39

@Abitofalark keep reading, it's worth it I promise.

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Abitofalark · 20/12/2021 21:35

Thank you for posting that extract FuriousAndFrustrated. I now know that I don't need to read any more from someone who in all seriousness
"tried to make her see that trans women are women, just as much as she was...". And that's without the last part of that sentence to cap it.
Too bad you had to endure the idiocy never mind the reporting and spite.

JesusCrumbsSuperStar · 20/12/2021 20:22

As someone with a close family member who is a trans woman, who has banned JK Rowling in their house and grimaces at her name being mentioned, this was an interesting read in what is a very confusing time for my family.

sofato5miles · 20/12/2021 20:12

I have to say his essay is exciting to me. It articulates everything, but with a broader back story.

@FuriousAndFrustrated that time would have been maddening. I hope he apologises

Linguini · 20/12/2021 19:53

I was the work colleague he reported. I've still not forgiven him, though I'm pleased that he has revised his opinions.

Bloody hell. I can't imagine how I'd feel in those circumstances. Not happy is an understatement.

SapphosRock · 20/12/2021 19:45

Wow FuriousAndFrustrated I can imagine you felt... furious and frustrated.

Shame he hasn't been in touch to apologise as he clearly realises he was in the wrong.

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