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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The tone of this suggests further turning of the tide.. can we dare to hope!!

112 replies

loopyapp · 18/12/2021 17:24

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10322699/ALISON-BOSHOFF.html

First time I've read mainstream reporting supportive of JKR!!!

OP posts:
RhymesWithOrange · 19/12/2021 09:07

@BlueberryCheezecake

It's the Daily Mail. As a right wing conservative paper, they've been consistently supportive of the GC movement.
Because misogyny and science denying is left wing?
musicalfrog · 19/12/2021 08:54

I don't read papers. Are the left writing articles that are unsupportive of JKR? Or are they just staying quiet?

I tend to think that anyone staying quiet (including slebs) are generally of the GC viewpoint and rather than risk anything by speaking out, they simply say nothing.

TheMarzipanDildo · 19/12/2021 08:34

“Wims, don't bother arguing with Blueberry about your leftwing credentials. Blueberry knows this is a left-wing dominated site, and that's the point of Blue's comment.”

This is very true. I tend to get a bit defensive when people accuse me of being right wing! Which is pointless. Particularly given that I think one of best things about GC is what a broad church it is.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 19/12/2021 06:04

@BlueberryCheezecake

It's the Daily Mail. As a right wing conservative paper, they've been consistently supportive of the GC movement.
Wims, don't bother arguing with Blueberry about your leftwing credentials. Blueberry knows this is a left-wing dominated site, and that's the point of Blue's comment.

No-one bothers informing people they know to be right-wing that they're right-wing, because they would just say, "er I know. Your point?"

The aim is to smear left-wing people to other left-wing people, and to make traditionally left-wing feminists doubt their conclusions on this topic. The ultimate hope is that you will end up worrying so much about being right-wing that you will fall into line on gender identity philosophy and sign women's rights away, in order to buff up your left-wing credentials.

OnAWinterMorningFarAway · 19/12/2021 00:40

@BlueberryCheezecake

It's the Daily Mail. As a right wing conservative paper, they've been consistently supportive of the GC movement.
Funnily enough, I am a British citizen and I'm left-of-centre and always have been. I used to despair of my father reading the Daily Mail and raising his blood pressure through the roof.

I wouldn't say that I am part of 'the GC movement' either as I'm not entirely sure how you are defining it there.

I do however vehemently support freedom of expression and admire Maya Forstater and JK Rowling among others. I loathe gender identity ideology and the damage it is doing to children's and young people's bodies and minds, to girls' and women's sports, and to the safety of women in prisons.

Your 'gotcha' is really dreary and it doesn't work in the UK, where the biggest and most effective push-back against gender woo crap is happening - and is coming from the left-of-centre as well as the right-of-centre, between whom (in the UK) there can sometimes appear the thinnest of lines.

FrancescaContini · 19/12/2021 00:21

Grin died in the wool Grin

FrancescaContini · 19/12/2021 00:20

@Babdoc

Blueberry, my 32 year old DD is a signed up member of the Communist party, is totally GC and has published articles in the Morning Star against self ID. You really need to ditch this fantasy that all GC feminists are "right wing".
I agree with you, thank you for pointing this out.
senua · 18/12/2021 23:10

Does someone want to point the Grauniad in the direction of "Well done JK. The world is going nuts,and we have to stand behind anyone who believes in free speech..." and its 21998 thumbs-up votes?

334bu · 18/12/2021 22:55

Well it's very low stakes isn't it. A communist revolution is not looking likely any time soon. Perhaps if it was, and the threat of violent wealth distribution was very real, those discussions might be a bit more heated.

The condescension just oozes out doesn't it?

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2021 22:42

barley you are the people's poet and I claim my ten pounds.

Warmduscher · 18/12/2021 21:44

@barleybadminton

I'm a bit surprised to discover if you vote Tory you are ipso facto a Stalinist. Someone should ask Boris why on earth he's proposing collectivising agriculture, Idk if that's a policy your average conservative is likely to get behind.

It's perfectly possible to have radical and revolutionary economic goals but also to be deeply socially conservative and authoritarian. In fact thats pretty much what Stalinism is. That doesn't mean Stalinism and Tories are the same.

Though it is interesting that pretty much every authoritarian tendency from Stalinists to Evangelicals to Daily Mail social conservatives to actual died in the wool Fascists all oppose trans rights.

It’s “dyed in the wool”.

The rest of your post is even less worth commenting on, though I’d be vaguely interested to know which trans rights GC people are opposed to.

SirVixofVixHall · 18/12/2021 21:44

@barleybadminton

I'm a bit surprised to discover if you vote Tory you are ipso facto a Stalinist. Someone should ask Boris why on earth he's proposing collectivising agriculture, Idk if that's a policy your average conservative is likely to get behind.

It's perfectly possible to have radical and revolutionary economic goals but also to be deeply socially conservative and authoritarian. In fact thats pretty much what Stalinism is. That doesn't mean Stalinism and Tories are the same.

Though it is interesting that pretty much every authoritarian tendency from Stalinists to Evangelicals to Daily Mail social conservatives to actual died in the wool Fascists all oppose trans rights.

Not enough room in my head for my eyes to roll at this.
Igmum · 18/12/2021 21:37

Well said Grumpy. I'm generally a bit of a leftie but I don't find it surprising that anyone from the left, right or centre of politics, whether authoritarian or permissive, believes in the reality of either Biology specifically or science more generally. These are facts. Denying them does not make them any less true.

Trans people should and do have rights but rights are not some Top Trumps game in which being trans is somehow your highest scoring card. Others also have rights and protecting these is the best way to ensure we have the sort of society in which trans rights are preserved. Yes trans rights are human rights, but women's rights are also human rights.

Grumpyosaurus · 18/12/2021 21:04

Though it is interesting that pretty much every authoritarian tendency from Stalinists to Evangelicals to Daily Mail social conservatives to actual died in the wool Fascists all oppose trans rights.
I'm as GC as they come and absolutely do NOT oppose trans rights.

I want trans people to have the rights we all enjoy, to live their lives fully and completely. That doesn't mean that I want to medicalise children who haven't the mental and emotional maturity to make massive decisions about their bodies, or that I am prepared to sit back and see the rights of women to sex-based spaces (and sports) taken away.

So do bugger off with that argument.

teawamutu · 18/12/2021 20:42

@Babdoc

I might add, I am a moderate Tory. My Communist DD and I can debate our polar opposite political views without issuing death threats to one another. Perhaps we could have the same courtesy from the TRAs?
You sound like a family I'd love to know!
barleybadminton · 18/12/2021 20:13

I'm a bit surprised to discover if you vote Tory you are ipso facto a Stalinist. Someone should ask Boris why on earth he's proposing collectivising agriculture, Idk if that's a policy your average conservative is likely to get behind.

It's perfectly possible to have radical and revolutionary economic goals but also to be deeply socially conservative and authoritarian. In fact thats pretty much what Stalinism is. That doesn't mean Stalinism and Tories are the same.

Though it is interesting that pretty much every authoritarian tendency from Stalinists to Evangelicals to Daily Mail social conservatives to actual died in the wool Fascists all oppose trans rights.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2021 19:50

@Babdoc

One can only laugh at a gender ideologist decrying authoritarian tendencies! Lack of insight, much?
I'm a bit surprised to discover if you vote Tory you are ipso facto a Stalinist. Someone should ask Boris why on earth he's proposing collectivising agriculture, Idk if that's a policy your average conservative is likely to get behind.
barleybadminton · 18/12/2021 19:31

@Babdoc

I might add, I am a moderate Tory. My Communist DD and I can debate our polar opposite political views without issuing death threats to one another. Perhaps we could have the same courtesy from the TRAs?
Well it's very low stakes isn't it. A communist revolution is not looking likely any time soon. Perhaps if it was, and the threat of violent wealth distribution was very real, those discussions might be a bit more heated.
RepentBirthingPersonFucker · 18/12/2021 19:31

The left has totally lost its way. Gone is class analysis and in is the most capitalist, individualistic ideology possible. What better to create patients for life for a growing industry
Misogyny has always been rife in Left and Right. Now left wing beardies can enjoy more and more extreme misogyny whilst pretending to be progressive

loopyapp · 18/12/2021 19:23

I'm central/left leaning .. hardly right wing or tory voting but supporting different political agendas doesn't mean we can't agree on things.

Partisan agreement extends to other major issues .. we all agree murder is wrong, terrorism is wrong, slowly everyone is coming to the agreement on climate change and likewise it seems everyone on all sides can see the dangers to women and children the be kind and be quiet message has.

OP posts:
Babdoc · 18/12/2021 19:13

I might add, I am a moderate Tory. My Communist DD and I can debate our polar opposite political views without issuing death threats to one another. Perhaps we could have the same courtesy from the TRAs?

Babdoc · 18/12/2021 19:10

One can only laugh at a gender ideologist decrying authoritarian tendencies! Lack of insight, much?

TheMarzipanDildo · 18/12/2021 19:09

@Babdoc

Blueberry, my 32 year old DD is a signed up member of the Communist party, is totally GC and has published articles in the Morning Star against self ID. You really need to ditch this fantasy that all GC feminists are "right wing".
I was briefly a communist and am still very left wing.

barleybadminton I’m also a bisexual and very much in favour of gay rights. I’m also a fan of the rights that I have as a woman. I’m also GC in part because I very much object to the authoritarian tendencies of TRAs, not because I’m an authoritarian myself!

barleybadminton · 18/12/2021 19:01

@Babdoc

Blueberry, my 32 year old DD is a signed up member of the Communist party, is totally GC and has published articles in the Morning Star against self ID. You really need to ditch this fantasy that all GC feminists are "right wing".
It's hardly surprising that Stalinists and Marxist-Leninists share some values with right wing social conservatives. They always did, lots of state communists opposed LGB rights in the 80s claiming it was bourgois deviancy. Marxist-Leninists and social conservatives are both deeply authoritarian tendencies and have often occupied the same ground on social issues.
EishetChayil · 18/12/2021 19:01

@Babdoc

Blueberry, my 32 year old DD is a signed up member of the Communist party, is totally GC and has published articles in the Morning Star against self ID. You really need to ditch this fantasy that all GC feminists are "right wing".
Same in this household. DH a fully paid-up Commie! Also writes for the Morning Star. Gender critical to the bone.