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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘Cis’ actors playing trans characters. Males actors getting away with doing it whilst female actors apologise for thinking about it

59 replies

RaPumPumPumPum · 14/12/2021 22:08

Watching Dallas Buyers Club and idly wondered if Jared Leto ever got any stick for playing a trans woman. All Google could throw up was he was heckled by a person once. He’s never been questioned or criticised for it and certainly has never made an apology for it.

Then I remembered Scarlett Johannsen apologising a few years ago for just considering playing a trans man. Halle Berry also dropped out a project to play a trans man and apologised. Both heavily criticised, harassed on social media and ‘called out’.

I can’t think why people attack women for thinking about playing a trans character, but don’t even say anything to men for actually doing it. It’s almost like they’re trying to control what women do, what they say and how they feel

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highame · 15/12/2021 21:39

We haven't yet discussed Pantomime Dames. Only to be played by women. Drag becomes null and void so poof goes Rau Paul's drag race. There's more irony in TRActivism than anywhere else right now.

PatriotCanes · 15/12/2021 21:19

'That's what I do for a living, try to be people that I'm not'

A topical article here: www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10313585/Javier-Bardem-responds-criticism-Spanish-playing-Cuban-American-Desi-Arnaz.html

Snugglepumpkin · 15/12/2021 19:56

If only transpeople can play transpeople that's fine by me, just so long as they NEVER play a non transperson.

By this reasoning, am I to understand from now on that only paedophiles can play paedophiles in films?
Only rapists can play rapists?
Only murderers can play murderers?

TV will be very odd in the future if this is what counts as sense when casting for films.

EishetChayil · 15/12/2021 18:58

How does China feel about TWAW? (Apart from in their Olympic squads, where they are very keen.)!

Ironically, one of the biggest celebrities in China is Jin Xing - a former People's Liberation Army soldier who transitioned and became a famous dancer, and now TV host.

That said, general LGBTQ rights aren't publically discussed there as a matter of course.

antisocialsocialclub · 15/12/2021 18:36

@Mittenmob

Do I have to check the sheep identify as sheep?
🤣 heh heh heh
OnGoldenPond · 15/12/2021 18:19

@CheeseMmmm

Have read USA acting approach different from here.

USA approach is it's necessary to relate to character in whatever way.

I assume this is what leads to USA films seem to have actors who play exactly the same character (play themselves) in every single role.

US acting training is generally accepted to be inferior to UK training. So their actors can only play characters similar to themselves whereas British trained actors can, y'know, act. So they can convincingly play characters very different to themselves, including genuine accents.

The only requirement for being cast in a part should be to physically look the part and to be able to give a convincing portrayal of the character. So playing gay, trans, Mancunian doesn't require you to have those characteristics in real life, but Othello shouldn't be played by a white bloke in black face.

Double3xposure · 15/12/2021 14:51

@PermanentTemporary

I do get that making a living as a trans performer can't be easy and it must be frustrating when a part comes up that you're uniquely qualified for and someone else who isn't as qualified gets it.
But on that basis people shouldn’t cast actors for anything. Unless they are actually playing the part of actors of course.

Because the best person to play eg a 35 year old police officer would be a 35 year old police officer, not an actor. She would be uniquely qualified to play that role in a way that the actor is not.

LangificusClegasaurous · 15/12/2021 14:42

Richard O'Brien came out on JR'S side last year -
www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/nov/05/richard-obrien-interview-rocky-horror-trans-crack-stroke-70s

Interesting, thanks for the link! I would have expected some backlash against him for this, even though it was cautiously worded. (But I would have missed it if there was any.)

He didn't seem to completely get where JR is coming from, no surprise there, really.

Tim Curry mentioned in a fan Q&A (in response to a question about memorable fan interactions) that he had gotten death threats and was once stalked by a transvestite who was on parole for murdering his lover.

Mittenmob · 15/12/2021 14:29

Do I have to check the sheep identify as sheep?

antisocialsocialclub · 15/12/2021 14:24

My DS played a shepherd and unlike the Jewish flock attendants at the time, isn’t circumcised

Oh no I played a Roman when I was younger, I need to confess my obvious cultural appropriation Shock Wink

GutsInMay · 15/12/2021 14:09

@Mittenmob

My DD recently played a shepherd. Will she now have to release a statement on twitter? Admittedly gender wasn't discussed and the robes were ambiguous but the biblical context suggests shepherds probably had pensises and she definitely doesn't.
My DS played a shepherd and unlike the Jewish flock attendants at the time, isn’t circumcised Shock
PatriotCanes · 15/12/2021 13:55

@LangificusClegasaurous

I wonder what would happen if Tim Curry made some gender critical statement. After all, he played a diabolical murderous transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania.
Richard O'Brien came out on JR'S side last year - www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/nov/05/richard-obrien-interview-rocky-horror-trans-crack-stroke-70s
MandyMotherOfBrian · 15/12/2021 13:43

@LangificusClegasaurous

I wonder what would happen if Tim Curry made some gender critical statement. After all, he played a diabolical murderous transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania.
Um, I think you’ll find he was a sweet transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania - ahahah ahha.
SirSamuelVimes · 15/12/2021 13:29

@Justme56

I do wonder what roles Elliot Page will be cast in going forward. As a 5 feet 1 inch man who looks like a teenage boy but is actually 34, I’m not sure where Elliot’s career is headed?
Down the toilet.

Netflix will adjust the umbrella academy somehow to accommodate her transitioning to he. They will in part do this because it will appeal to the audience for that specific show, and in part to boost their LGBTQ+-*/%etc points to offset their refusal to drop Dave Chappel. I reckon Page might get one more role after that - probably playing a youngish, non-threatening, non-sexy man - a "best friend" type role - and then that'll be it. How many male actors are there under 5'6"? Plus Hollywood had to have 1 eye on the international market. How does China feel about TWAW? (Apart from in their Olympic squads, where they are very keen.)

Artichokeleaves · 15/12/2021 12:50

Quite apart from the issues of only T people can play T people but T people can play anything, because sometimes TWAW but are still T rather than W when it serves, and the whole acting thing, a film rarely gets off the ground without a well known name or two in the lead role who will help at the box office. Films are products that sell to make money. However you feel about it, that's the fact, that's the reality.

That means that an unknown T actor in the lead role is a financial risk that is very unlikely to be taken up if you know how many projects are set up and how very very few get taken up, funded and manage to stay solvent to the point of release. Not to mention Hollywood has been systematically trained now by experience that trying to have a T role or a T theme in a film just leads to all hell breaking loose and the film usually never gets made. It's not possible to do. As a result, there's almost none of them.

Cutting off noses to spite faces comes to mind.

ditalini · 15/12/2021 12:26

@VikingVolva

There was quite a fuss when Julie Hesmondhalgh was cast in Corrie

That's nearly 25 years ago - but Classic has been showing her early episodes in the last few months

Didn't one of the UK trans Grand Dames not boast about advising Coronation St to have a woman play Hayley because it would be more sympathetic (i.e. that they could have a storyline with shock and surprise that Hayley was actually born a man)?

Can't remember which one. The Beaumont Society founder that's always pushing her book on Twitter.

Justme56 · 15/12/2021 10:56

I do wonder what roles Elliot Page will be cast in going forward. As a 5 feet 1 inch man who looks like a teenage boy but is actually 34, I’m not sure where Elliot’s career is headed?

LangificusClegasaurous · 15/12/2021 10:44

I wonder what would happen if Tim Curry made some gender critical statement. After all, he played a diabolical murderous transvestite from Transexual, Transylvania.

dropitlikeitsloth · 15/12/2021 10:36

@NeedsCharging

Fact is women can't do anything unless men, transwomen included approve.

Patriarchy has changed the dress code but it's still Patriarchy it's just woke now.

And if I’m honest woke patriarchy is worse as it harder to counter.
MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 15/12/2021 10:35

In BIG, Tom Hanks played the role of a 13 year old boy in the body of an adult man. Going by the logic of current ideologies it should have been played by an actual transage man who identifies as a 13 year old. Not sure how comfortable Hollywood is with that idea though…

(I have issues with the BIG movie but feel it is an appropriate example in this context)

Shedmistress · 15/12/2021 10:32

At least...3 sheep...sigh.

Shedmistress · 15/12/2021 10:32

@Mittenmob

My DD recently played a shepherd. Will she now have to release a statement on twitter? Admittedly gender wasn't discussed and the robes were ambiguous but the biblical context suggests shepherds probably had pensises and she definitely doesn't.
No but she will need to purchase at last 3 sheep in the next 12 weeks.
Mittenmob · 15/12/2021 10:23

My DD recently played a shepherd. Will she now have to release a statement on twitter? Admittedly gender wasn't discussed and the robes were ambiguous but the biblical context suggests shepherds probably had pensises and she definitely doesn't.

Thegreencup · 15/12/2021 10:23

@ArtemesiaK

Is it OK for trans actors to be given parts as non-trans characters, though? Surely they're limiting their roles if they can only ever play their own gender....
Well Eddie Izzard is currently playing a non-trans male character in a TV show.

There is also Elliott Page's non-trans character in Umbrella Academy. Although I'd expected it's the kind of show that would make the character trans to accommodate.

So who knows.

Redshoeblueshoe · 15/12/2021 10:18

Whilst filming Marathon Man Dustin Hoffman stayed up all night, so people could see he was a tortured soul.
Laurence Olivier suggested that he could just try acting instead Xmas Grin

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