Page 2 | MUST WATCH "David Baddiel: Social, Media, Anger and Us" BBC2

RedToothBrush · 2021-12-13T21:37:55+00:00

This is a hugely important documentary. *I would urge everyone on this section to have a good watch.* It covers some highly relevant subjects connected to identity. Its a really good background to some of the political conflicts we current see and stuff like cancel culture Its just over 2/3 though but already I think its bloody brilliant.

PaulRuddsWife · 15/12/2021 05:31

Sali Hughes from the Guardian talking about a site called Tattle Life (never heard of it but it sounds totally poisonous) - very articulate on being actively, repeatedly targeted online. Poor woman

The Sali Hughes who threatened to doxx ex members of her FB group and had a conversation on Twitter with India Knight about sending India's partner, the convicted sex offender Eric Joyce, round to their houses?

The Sali Hughes who repeatedly bullied Dawn O Porter on Twitter?

That Sali Hughes? Yes, poor woman

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 01:56

The blame the parents thing is vv common.

Also ignores so many things.

It's a comforting and easy reaction.

It's the go to around online porn. So that's a consideration.

It ignores-

Parents who don't get what can be online and how children can be exposed to all sorts of stuff.

Parents who don't understand how to do apps and set them up etc.

Children seeing it elsewhere.

Children being online so standard it makes them odd one out, can't join in with chat with friends etc.

The massive interest in anything more 'grown up' which has always been s thing. And especially if parents ban. Just increases interest.

That parental controls etc bypassed easily if child wants to and gets friend to Google/ asks around.

That parental control is shit, way more than people realise.

That banning is difficult when loads of schoolwork on line and COVID, all lessons.

That looking over shoulder all time on net is not practical at all.

Etc etc.

It's like women and girls being given a mile long list to 'protect themselves' from men with bad intentions.

Ignores the root of the problem.
Puts huge onus on potential victims.
Anything happens it's fault of parents (generally meaning mum) or child. Victim blaming.

Solution? When it comes to internet. No complete one. Very difficult problem. Blame family etc? Much easier.

Understand why happens but means can relax. That's where the blame lies. Comforting.

If my family do X then all will be fine.
Those who don't only themselves to blame.
Negligent.

dropitlikeitsloth · 14/12/2021 22:32

@RedToothBrush

It is interesting saying about the 'quiet people' who don't speak on social media.

It has always been important for me on MN to speak what I feel and never be afraid of being different to others. A lesson I learn in the days of the early internet forums was people always agree with you, but are often afraid to voice it, but will quietly message you thanking you. And you should always look for and listen to the quiet voices as well as the shouty ones.

When I came to MN I carried that forward. I find it fascinating that was the note he ended the programme on. Its soo soo true and invaluable.

I never ever tweet. I read and digest instead.

It has always been important for me on MN to speak what I feel and never be afraid of being different to others. A lesson I learn in the days of the early internet forums was people always agree with you, but are often afraid to voice it, but will quietly message you thanking you. And you should always look for and listen to the quiet voices as well as the shouty ones.

Absolutely this.

Unmerited · 14/12/2021 22:17

I don’t know, I think Tattle is like people in real life. Some having objective, intelligent discussions and some nasty stuff. What seems to happen less there, compared to here is the personal sniping and the contrariness.

I think the objectiveness is missing from the DB programme. It’s an important subject for sure. I’d really like to see an in depth series on this though. All sides taken into account. It’s interesting to see people who had a large platform that they perhaps didn’t always behave well on, then railing against the ‘little’ people finally having a way to reply. Albeit with much less amplification. FWIW I could not be in the public eye or an influencer. They’re selling themselves as a brand in the ‘trusted friend’ model but then struggling with the feedback.

Also - got to smile when it’s a comedian that doesn’t like the feedback. Of all the people..

Snoozer11 · 14/12/2021 21:47

@Omicrone I haven't seen people mocking cancer patients or bereaved mothers.

Some of the influencer comments are on the nose but if you've chosen to flaunt your wealth and all aspects of your lifestyle and private life, I think you're open for criticism.

Its mostly just comments about Phillip Schofield and Meghan Markle.

Omicrone · 14/12/2021 19:29

@Snoozer11

I think there's generally more vitriol by posters on AIBU than there is on Tattle.

Bollocks is there.

The stuff on Tattle is vile - slagging off the appearance of a mother who lost her baby to cancer, slagging off a Stage 4 cancer patient's eyebrows, saying the most disgusting stuff about various 'influencers', about their personal hygiene, their appearance, some of the content definitely verges on overt racism. I couldn't believe what I was reading to be honest.

And if anyone calls it our, then they get bollocked for 'tone policing and attempting to moderate' and get threatened with a ban!

The people claim that they are 'holding influencers to account' but that's crap, the stuff they say on there goes way beyond.

It is nothing like Mumsnet.

Abhannmor · 14/12/2021 18:58

The accusation becomes the verdict all too often. There are a lot of ruined Iives out there. And a lot of suicides.

Original poster

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2021 18:00

The lesson I was taught at uni was all about who controls the power of the censors. Thats why you should always be wary of censorship.

Like state benefits and free hospital care you never know when you might need your freedom of speech.

This isn't a left / right thing in that sense. There has to be a sensible moderate approach to this which takes this into account.

OP posts:

ISaySteadyOn · 14/12/2021 17:51

"I'll be judge, I'll be jury said cunning old Fury 'I'll try the whole cause and condemn you to death'"

Lewis Carroll was apt there.

BreadInCaptivity · 14/12/2021 17:14

@Chosenonetosurvivethenight

Fascinating documentary. The whole idea of cancel culture versus consequence culture is really interesting/worrying. There is such a feeling of right and wrong think here. They didn't address how 'wrong think' is measured and who decides (dictates) it. As we know you cam be cancelled for saying a woman has a cervix so what will be the next wrong think and why is that not worrying.

Indeed, one of the things he said was who decides if the "consequence" is proportional?

It seems to me that there's a desire for many people to act as lawmaker, prosecutor, jury and judge.

I'll decide what the rules are, accuse you of breaking them, find you guilty and decide your sentence.

Chosenonetosurvivethenight · 14/12/2021 17:07

Fascinating documentary.
The whole idea of cancel culture versus consequence culture is really interesting/worrying. There is such a feeling of right and wrong think here. They didn't address how 'wrong think' is measured and who decides (dictates) it. As we know you cam be cancelled for saying a woman has a cervix so what will be the next wrong think and why is that not worrying.

Snoozer11 · 14/12/2021 16:59

I think there's generally more vitriol by posters on AIBU than there is on Tattle.

sashagabadon · 14/12/2021 16:03

I think DB is part of the problem though. He is provocative on Twitter and is equally guilty imo of all the things he accuses others of. I think they should all come off Twitter personally. It is no good for any of them.

RoyalCorgi · 14/12/2021 13:49

That said SH is no friend to MN either. She's been very vocal in her criticism of this site and "siding" on Twitter with a certain golfing enthusiast in their condemnation of "us".

I remember that, and it put me right off her. I have complete sympathy for how awful it must be when those people on Tattle were so nasty about her, or when people on Mumsnet made libellous comments about her.

But then to side with the golfing enthusiast, who is a deeply nasty piece of work, undermines her claim to be on the side of the angels. At least do your due diligence, Sali, before leaping in to take sides in an argument you know nothing about.

SequinsandStiIettos · 14/12/2021 13:45

One blanked expletive which is quite clearly cunt, otherwise fine. I do think showing it to teens would be productive, yes

SequinsandStiIettos · 14/12/2021 13:37

very

SequinsandStiIettos · 14/12/2021 13:37

Would have missed this had it not been your recommendation red
Thank you It was vey good indeed.

MarciaDidia · 14/12/2021 12:04

Thanks RedToothbrush

Original poster

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2021 09:10

@MarciaDidia

I shall try to watch this. Would you recommend it to tweens/teens pestering for social media accounts or is it sweary/too hard-hitting? I could imagine making watching it a pre-condition to permitting social media engagement or even sending it to schools for PHSE lessons. But I suspect it will not be age-appropriate.

I don't think there is anything too sweary or too adult in the programme actually (unless my memory is just being shit). There is a family who got arson attacked due to social media and thats not nice. But I also wouldn't say it was pitched at teens either. I think its one to watch yourself and make a decision. It really needs a similar programme to be rehashed for a more BBC3 audience for what you are looking for I think. This is definitely more 'gen x and older millenial' pitch - but thats perhaps a given with Baddiel as presenter.

OP posts:

MarciaDidia · 14/12/2021 08:40

I shall try to watch this. Would you recommend it to tweens/teens pestering for social media accounts or is it sweary/too hard-hitting? I could imagine making watching it a pre-condition to permitting social media engagement or even sending it to schools for PHSE lessons. But I suspect it will not be age-appropriate.

picklemewalnuts · 14/12/2021 08:36

@AnyOldPrion I think the same worked with mine- late phones, limited gaming/tv time. Neither do social media at all, though one of them is a keen gamer.

FrancescaContini · 14/12/2021 08:25

@Bellendejour

I think SH got a hard time on Tattle but I also remember that she and a few others has a little social media clique where they slated Dawn O Porter, calling her Prawn

and ripping apart her columns/work etc. And then I remember Giles Coren doing some random insta story about how she had given his wife a hard time (she had a food column). I think that all got uncovered on Tattle so some of it was about her hypocrisy in going on about being targeted etc when she had been a bit of a bully herself.

I don’t know anything about any of this as I don’t use any SM so am not “up” with who said what about who (frankly don’t care) in gossipland, but what struck me by the end of the programme was the extent to which DB was so entangled in NEEDING online validation, despite his attempts at “detoxing” from it. He’s truly addicted. I actually found it quite disturbing, and sad.

Bellendejour · 14/12/2021 08:09

I think SH got a hard time on Tattle but I also remember that she and a few others has a little social media clique where they slated Dawn O Porter, calling her Prawn and ripping apart her columns/work etc. And then I remember Giles Coren doing some random insta story about how she had given his wife a hard time (she had a food column). I think that all got uncovered on Tattle so some of it was about her hypocrisy in going on about being targeted etc when she had been a bit of a bully herself.

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/12/2021 02:41

Fascinating. Thanks RedToothBrush

Link for any who might want it
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0012kf0

BreadInCaptivity · 13/12/2021 22:43

@FrancescaContini

Sali Hughes from the Guardian talking about a site called Tattle Life (never heard of it but it sounds totally poisonous) - very articulate on being actively, repeatedly targeted online. Poor woman 😢

That site is indeed awful imho. It's based not so much on topics but "threads" about individuals that are just massive pile ons with very little moderation, full of very personal nasty comments and untrue/unsubstantiated rumour.

I ventured over there once and backed away very, very quickly....

That said SH is no friend to MN either. She's been very vocal in her criticism of this site and "siding" on Twitter with a certain golfing enthusiast in their condemnation of "us".

I believe this stems from some S&B threads that questioned her professionalism by suggesting she was plugging certain items in her column for personal benefit when there's no evidence whatsoever to suggest this and it's something SH has strenuously and repeatedly denied.

From memory the recommendation of a £40 (or more) shower cap was something a number of poster found ahem....a bizarre recommendation and jumped to erroneous conclusions.

That aside I think it's fair to say that SH has been involved in a number of SM episodes that some might consider controversial or question her judgement/approach, though others might say she's been effective in standing up for herself. All depends on your perspective....