Denmark's former immigration minister is JAILED for ordering asylum seeking couples to be separated if one was a minor in a bid to stamp out child marriage

Actually just realised I have a friend married 17!

Decades ago just remembered.

Coyo well quite and thank you for posting :)

Thanks -

I have no idea why there so much rejection on thread of individual assessments, blanket approach is right thing to do.

I don't seem to remember anyone having pause given point that would mean separation for UK couples (not at all likely to happen but the point is solid).

The fact that our current laws are out of line with generally agreed global minimum age marriage also hasn't been acknowledged by any pro blanket people.

I really really want to know if any have had second thoughts?

If no response whatever it is. Hmm that's a point/ makes no difference. Whatever.

Then my personal conclusions are not positive. But I don't want to share them at moment cos maybe comments about this to come.

Or a couple from Scotland married legally with no need for parental consent both age 17 somehow sought refuge in Norway, would be separated.

A couple from England, married with parental consent both age 17 somehow sought refuge in Norway, would be separated.

She could be Pg, they could have a baby already.

I mean sure not realistic example at all, but that's not the point.

To assume one extreme or the other, do nothing or automatically separate. Is too blunt. Can't see prob with individual assessment. We are talking about individual people's lives, after all.

The article I read refers to couples of similar ages.

Separating them and treating cases as individuals might seem harsh, but if you see it as harsh then presumably you see child marriage as ok sometimes. It's not ok. It's not something that's a positive for a young girl

I married at seventeen and it was positive for me. I did not want to extrapolate too much from my anecdotal circumstances, but that is why each case should be treated differently.

I find it faintly astonishing that all the women - girls, really - saying they hadn’t been coerced into the relationships was given such weight. Because they’re not going to say anything else on arrival - which complicates things even for the “Romeo & Juliet” spouses: being close in age is no guarantee of it being a safe, happy & voluntary relationship

Yes exactly. I think it's unlikely these are love marriages.
The existence of a wife, or a wife and kids, helps the case of these men. There is a motivational factor there.
If the wife is a child, that extra weighting given to his immigration case shouldn't exist.
In allowing child marriages in some circumstances Denmark is allowing this extra weighting and therefore encouraging these men to grab a female child en route as a wife. Because it is likely to make a big difference to the outcome for the male, whose journey is often a huge investment for his family. Often the family sink tons of their assets into getting him to Europe.

Posters suggesting that him being around is sometimes going to be beneficial for a girl need to explain why they think that. Why a child marriage is sometimes a good thing. Support in pregnancy? Well why is she pregnant at fifteen anyway? Oh yeah, it's because it suits him. He then has two dependents. He's then a "family man".

Separating them and treating cases as individuals might seem harsh, but if you see it as harsh then presumably you see child marriage as ok sometimes. It's not ok. It's not something that's a positive for a young girl.
And in a situation where the husband is likely to have no assets, no means of working, and is as unlikely to speak Danish as she is, I can't see what practical support an older husband could offer a child.
Assessing each on a case by case basis legitimises child marriage. It says it's ok sometimes.
Worst case scenario, she stays and he is deported, for example. Are these fifteen year old girls protesting to have their 30 year old husbands allowed to stay? Are they arguing that he's a great support? I'm not seeing that. Not anywhere.

Even referring to it as a blanket approach suggests that enforcing rules against child marriage is somehow strict and unfair. Being married to a child shouldn't be something that is supported some of the time.
I'd be very surprised if there was any evidence that these girls have suffered a detriment in having these men separated from them. The detriment is to the men, who posters are supporting, when their decision to bring a child bride along is likely driven by how much it helps their case. So in removing the requirement to split these couples up, it enforces the message to the men that it's a good idea to bring along a child bride, hence making it more likely it will continue to happen.

Ah the age consent was about 15yo dane Pg 15 sorry didn't get that bit.

It's an aside really though, point taken, doesn't make difference not key point or anything!

I don't think the blanket approach was correct.

That's all irreverent to the point though.

Currently the law allows marriage 16 here.

The minimum age to marry in Denmark is 18.

That's simply factual.

And extremely relevant to this thread.

I'm interested in what the posters who think blanket approach in Denmark is right thing to do. Think about the fact that currently our law is seen as child marriage in many countries, including Denmark.

I suppose it seems likely that the law in England and Wales will increase to 18

BBC News - MPs back raising minimum marriage age to 18 to protect children
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59344731

That's going to be interesting as this is a devolved issue for Scotland and NI. NI will remain 16 with parental consent and Scotland 16, with no need for parental consent.

Scots law has always given young people greater autonomy than English law so this will be interesting. I'm not aware of any particular calls to change it beyond this.

www.togetherscotland.org.uk/news-and-events/news/2021/06/uk-government-commits-to-raising-the-legal-age-of-marriage-to-18-in-england-and-wales/

I'm not aware of it being discussed at Holyrood and it isn't in the Scottish Law Commission's headlights. The SNP is always determined that Scotland is indeed another country and to aways do things differently from England. Plus it would stick in Sturgeon's craw to adopt a Tory idea.

The age of consent in Denmark is 15

Sorry for repeating myself!

I don't know if any posters who are for blanket approach, given our laws on marriage allow 16, and Denmark 18, have any thoughts on that?

2019 article on Denmark about social attitudes, political stance, some actions around immigration by govt etc.

Context is really important.

If course may not change views etc. That's not my aim in posting this

I think the context is important.

Plus I imagine it's all they've got, taken for reason jewellery etc is in the types circs.

Light, wearable, small, can be worn and covered or hidden more easily.

Two 17 year olds married 6 months? Which would be legal here.
A 15 yo and 17 to married recently?

Why the strong objection to treating couples as individuals rather than a blanket approach?

I agree.

A 2016 law required newly arrived asylum-seekers to hand over valuables such as jewellery and gold to help pay for their stays in the country

I'm probably more hardline than the average MNetter on this issue but that seems vindictive.

Yes , the bullion held by The Bank of England has value but individual items of gold and jewellery have to be in seriously high price range before there is meaningful resale value. Most jewellery has sentimental, not real value.

And surely what's in place for refugees there is pertinent.

Housing/education/ benefits/ looking after the under 18s etc.

If it's not great then if assessment done well and they older and she pregnant.
In a stage country, no money, more difficult if alone, etc. Then surely it would make things way more difficult than had to be.

'Most of the women among the separated couples were aged 15 to 17, while the men ranged in age from 15 to 32. '

Isn't how long they have been married relevant, for example?

Two 17 year olds married 6 months? Which would be legal here.
A 15 yo and 17 to married recently?

Why the strong objection to treating couples as individuals rather than a blanket approach?

What is the problem with that?

Incidentally-

'Considered an immigration hardliner, Ms Stoejberg spearheaded the tightening of asylum and immigration rules.

A 2016 law required newly arrived asylum-seekers to hand over valuables such as jewellery and gold to help pay for their stays in the country.'

We have child marriage though.

Under 18 which is the UN etc age to set.

To plenty other countries we have child marriage.

How does that fit with your thoughts?

Yes needs consent parent, no not big numbers.

Our law by allows child marriage.

She could have ordered a lawful individual assesment of each couple instead.

Meaning that it's all right for children to be married in some cases?

Pp talks about marriage under 18 help stop.

Missed that sorry.
That's legal here. (Parents consent, uncommon, that's not really the point though).

However, in this situation

The politician has introduced some of the harshest laws etc around refugees.

Govt said should be individual assessments. Can't see a problem with that.

Treating all who arrive, whatever their situation, as automatically better apart.

15/18 example. She pregnant maybe.
Always separate full stop? No assessment of any type?

What do they do when Danes are pregnant at 15? I have no idea but relevant.

When it's from a politician who seems to have a certain stance on refugees.
And as outsiders with no info on what would happen re education/ having baby, where live etc.
I think it's a bit knee jerk to say right thing.

Being able to get married 16 here is considered child marriage by many international orgs, the age they say is 18.
Just a general point.

I find it faintly astonishing that all the women - girls, really - saying they hadn’t been coerced into the relationships was given such weight. Because they’re not going to say anything else on arrival - which complicates things even for the “Romeo & Juliet” spouses: being close in age is no guarantee of it being a safe, happy & voluntary relationship. As well as the understandable fear of being in a strange place there’s also a good chance of there being at best a tangle of cultural expectations & nuance to get through; & at worst someone [not] coping with trauma - specifically due to their marriage, I mean, rather than the more general (sounds horribly flippant, but do not mean it to be) trauma experienced as a refugee [& in process of becoming one]. So yes, each case needs considering on its own merits - but in the circumstances, all cases needed addressing.

A relative who worked for the U.K. Asylum Directorate & Department of Immigration had the job, when I was 14/15, of informing the US Armed Forces that their service member who wished to bring his new wife who was of an age of me into the country was not only not permitted to do so but it would constitute an offence if he did. Rather a pity they rushed their wedding with her travelling with him in mind. (And, you know, a pity that her family were willing to sign the paperwork; & that she’d effectively abandon her education; & that the US military didn’t have rules in place so other countries didn’t have to be the ones to tell them no). The Home Office would look at any & all such applications on an individual basis (am trying & failing to remember about rules on eg 12 yo wives entering country are). I wonder what she’d have done if she’d American couples where the wife was 13/14/15 & the husband 18+ seeking to make their home there. Clearly it’s a different sort of application, but would it have been flagged, I wonder?

Anyway, if anyone on the thread’s not familiar with Girls Not Brides they’re campaigning for an end to child marriage; & their site has some useful resources on things like where in the world the 1/5 girls who are getting married before 18 are.

These men use these girls as a passport into Europe. A "family man" stands a better chance than a single man. He isn't going to help her claim anything, he doesn't speak the language either. There will be social workers and translators for all that. He can't bring in any income (but he can spend it!) And if you think he's going to provide childcare while she learns Danish and gets a part time job I've got a bridge to sell you.

Imagine if your 14 or 15 year old daughter was pregnant with her first or even second child, to a man who is using her to get into Denmark, and when someone separates him from her the world goes crazy because there wasn't an "individual assessment."
Even if every girl separated from her husband in this way was protesting outside the courts, there's no way this judgement should have been made. (And look, the children rescued from child marriages aren't all screaming for their husbands to be returned to them, quelle fucking surprise)

Wow- individual assessments she denied.

'In 2016, Denmark separated 23 refugee couples upon arrival on Stojeberg’s order which was later deemed unlawful by the parliament’s ombudsman as it failed to acknowledge that couples have the right for individual assessments. '