I feel let down and insulted by the stupidity of the gender worshippers

[quote RoyalCorgi]**@RoyalCorgi, that has more to do with politics than suspension of belief in science.

That's very true. This is exactly the point that Liddle made in his column yesterday - the people pushing this know perfectly well that the Maori creation myth isn't true, but they have decided to pretend that it has just as much of a claim to truth as evolution because they think it is politically expedient to do so.

This is the same with the gender woo. While there are people who believe in idiotic stuff like inner gender identity, sex is a spectrum, 500 genders etc and so on, the people promoting this stuff at a policy level don't, I think, believe it. They do it because they fear the consequences if they don't.[/quote]
This is depressingly true. Especially when the are prepared to throw women under a bus for this political expediency, especially some of the most vulnerable women in our society - those in prisons, refuges, homeless and addiction centre.

Nothing has shown more clearly that women are not regarded as as human as men are, than this movement.

There isnt anything about genderism that doesnt annoy me. The lies. The group think. The pretense at individuality and non conformity while they attack anyone who doesnt join the group and conform.

I've spent too long looking for rational answers to this. I am now realising that there is none.

Great thread.

Oh, this is so well put. I’ve noticed this forever but not quite been able to verbalise it. It’s something akin to cognitive dissonance, but much more specific. I think of it as the Judith Butler effect.

Absolutely. What's remarkable about Butler is that when she is pinned down in an interview, the answers she gives are remarkably banal and at the level of your common or garden Twitter activist TRA. When she's not allowed to obfuscate, the stuff she believes is just, well, stupid. Very much the wizard behind the curtain.

@RoyalCorgi, that has more to do with politics than suspension of belief in science.

That's very true. This is exactly the point that Liddle made in his column yesterday - the people pushing this know perfectly well that the Maori creation myth isn't true, but they have decided to pretend that it has just as much of a claim to truth as evolution because they think it is politically expedient to do so.

This is the same with the gender woo. While there are people who believe in idiotic stuff like inner gender identity, sex is a spectrum, 500 genders etc and so on, the people promoting this stuff at a policy level don't, I think, believe it. They do it because they fear the consequences if they don't.

Another trap is thinking that if you need to perform mental gymnastics in order to make a theory work, those mental gymnastics are a sign of your intelligence. You are therefore consider yourself more intelligent than the people who think you are wrong

Oh, this is so well put. I’ve noticed this forever but not quite been able to verbalise it. It’s something akin to cognitive dissonance, but much more specific. I think of it as the Judith Butler effect.

That was in response to teaching Maori creation myths alongside scientific theory.

@RoyalCorgi, that has more to do with politics than suspension of belief in science.

Thank you, I enjoyed it.

@MrsMadderRose, that was a perceptive post. Thank you for writing that.

@EdgeOfACoin, I'll look out for that book. I've got a long-haul flight coming up (fingers crossed) and it sounds just the thing to pass the time as I don't like headphones and prefer to read.

Another trap is thinking that if you need to perform mental gymnastics in order to make a theory work, those mental gymnastics are a sign of your intelligence. You are therefore consider yourself more intelligent than the people who think you are wrong, because those people are not clever enough to understand your mental gymnastics.

That's very astute. I find with a lot of the gender woo people, they think they are more sophisticated than the rest of us. Only dullards believe that there are two sexes. The really smart people understand that there are 100 sexes! Or that sex is on a spectrum! Or insert other shit as appropriate.

I agree with you, OP, but if these people had a glimmer of intelligence, they wouldn't believe in the gender woo in the first place. It's like expecting signs of intelligence from people who believe the earth is flat, or that Bill Gates is trying to control your mind through vaccines, or indeed that God created the earth in seven days and there were no such thing as dinosaurs.

The striking thing is that most sensible people laugh at the flat earthers, the Bill Gates mind-controllers and the creationists. But so very many of them are going along with the gender woo.

Having said that, in New Zealand, apparently schools are now having to treat the Maori creation story with the same weight as the theory of evolution:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10301209/New-Zealand-academic-got-CANCELLED-condemned-plan-teach-Maori-beliefs-science-classes.html

Is Ahblahblablah here to tell what genderfuck is? Since those interviewed on the Nolan podcasts didn’t quite get it.

Thanks for that edge, will look for it.

The other thing that reminds me of arguing with fundamentalist Christians, is the conflation of not sharing someone's beliefs with meaning them actual physical harm.

"You're persecuting us and want to KILL US ALL!!!" ...nah mate I just suggested your religious beliefs shouldn't be enshrined in the law of the land. Not quite the same thing.

Maybe it's projection; there has been the odd occasion of religious violence in the past I think, and clearly with all the 'punch a terf' rhetoric out there, there's a lot of males with seething barely contained rage towards women.

But smart people can believe irrational things if they have powerful motivators to do so.

I read the book The Intelligence Trap after seeing it recommended on these boards. It was a really interesting read and delved into the reasons why otherwise intelligent people could believe utterly daft things. (Eg Arthur Conan Doyle being easily deceived by various con artist tricks, despite his having written the Sherlock Holmes books.)

One trap is believing that because you have previously been right in relation to Issue A, you will also be right in relation to Issue B.

Another trap is thinking that if you need to perform mental gymnastics in order to make a theory work, those mental gymnastics are a sign of your intelligence. You are therefore consider yourself more intelligent than the people who think you are wrong, because those people are not clever enough to understand your mental gymnastics.

There are some other traps discussed.

The book makes the point that nobody is immune to falling into these traps.

It's a good book. I need to reread it, actually.

Wow, that speech!

Agree embarrassing it's not the only motivator.

Yes, that probably would be the quickest way to get the thread deleted, disgusted, I quite agree.

Let’s not do that.

I know a few genderwooists who are older and intelligent. But what strikes me about them is that they are quite insecure people who have always needed a "thing" to join and be a part of, and needed praise and admiration from others.

I know a distressing number of scientists and medics who would disagree with me on the general issue of sex and gender as understood on MN. Very few of them match your description. In the cast of too many, they are trapped by #BeKind and far too many have been like Richard Dawkins, they've not read into it and they have no comprehension of the wider issues involved.

tbh, some of them are too long in a profession where altruism is demanded of them that a number of them would be incapable of understanding that so many women are tired of being service humans to others.