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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paraphilias, Cyberflashing and the Online Safety Bill

36 replies

ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 16:28

Article on 'cyberflashing' (I think what is often known as 'unsolicited dick pics') and considering the potential adding of this as a crime to the OSB.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-59615944

'Cyber-flashing has become increasingly common during the pandemic as people spend more time online, campaigners have said.

On Tuesday, a joint committee of MPs will publish its report on the UK government's draft Online Safety Bill, aimed at introducing tougher regulations for social media firms.

Cyber-flashing is not included in the bill, but campaigners and MPs backing the change hope it will be added and Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said it should be illegal.'

I have the feeling we really need to talk about sex crimes like flashing (Sarah Everard's case showed the potential seriousness of the crime), exhibitionism and coercing women into being witness to sexual fetishism, etc.

Here's a (very basic) article on various 'paraphilias'.

www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/paraphilias-overview

'abnormal sexual behaviors or impulses characterized by intense sexual fantasies and urges that keep coming back. '

'Most paraphilias are rare and are about 20 times more common among males than among females. However, the reason for this disparity is not clearly understood. While several of these disorders are associated with aggressive behavior, others are not aggressive or harmful. Some paraphilias such as pedophilia, exhibitionism, voyeurism, sadism, and frotteurism are criminal offenses.'

Article doesn't go into detail about the potential for paraphilias to escalate, which is a concern I have.

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oviraptor21 · 14/12/2021 16:01

BBC article on the same subject

BBC News - Online Safety Bill: New offences and tighter rules
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59638569

I wonder what the likelihood is of making
" promoting or stirring up violence against women" a criminal offence and how much attention Twitter et al would pay to that if it happened.

Artichokeleaves · 14/12/2021 12:50

@MargaritaPie

"Currently social media platforms don't care if unwanted pictures of erections are flying in the face of women, because it's between two adults"

Are you sure about that? Because I've seen people get 30 day Facebook bans for posting sexual material less severe than an erection image. I'm pretty sure PMing an erect penis image to someone who result in a permanent ban if the recipient reported it to FB.

FB also has various ways to control your privacy and who you receive messages from, eg you can set it so only your friends can PM you if you want.

What more can they do?

Perhaps respond with the same enthusiasm to keep the world a safer place as they do in deleting and banning any female mentioning biology?

Because the zero tolerance efficiency for one group and the oh well what can you do, we're just helpless and its in the hands of the users for another is a bit - well. Sex based. In an interesting way.

ArabellaScott · 14/12/2021 12:40

Article on this in today's Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/online-safety-bill-to-outlaw-financial-scams-and-cyberflashing-6td72pvsh

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highame · 14/12/2021 08:05

There needs to be a government public awareness scheme on paraphilias. They affect about 1 in 20 men, and men with a paraphilia will go to extreme lengths to fulfil their sexual "needs" including design their entire lives and careers around it. They're masters of manipulation and pretence. This would be why there seems to be so much backing for trans rights. A cause which will lead to removal of safeguarding will benefit those 1 in 20 and if you then take the numbers in the US and then around the world, there is a big cohort working against us. Added to this, the strategy of transwomen in places of significant influence is giving us a perfect storm.

The good news is, it's now in the open in the UK and stealth no longer works.

Linguini · 14/12/2021 07:40

I'm sure 30 day Facebook suspensions are as arbitrarily applied as they are on Twitter, who don't seem to know where they stand on dick picks.

mashable.com/article/unsolicited-dick-pics-twitter-abusive-behavior

What more can they do than a 30 day ban? Really?

MargaritaPie · 14/12/2021 00:11

"Currently social media platforms don't care if unwanted pictures of erections are flying in the face of women, because it's between two adults"

Are you sure about that? Because I've seen people get 30 day Facebook bans for posting sexual material less severe than an erection image. I'm pretty sure PMing an erect penis image to someone who result in a permanent ban if the recipient reported it to FB.

FB also has various ways to control your privacy and who you receive messages from, eg you can set it so only your friends can PM you if you want.

What more can they do?

TurquoiseBaubles · 13/12/2021 23:59

I agree op.

I don't consent to being part of anyone's fetish. I don't believe anyone should be allowed to dress up in an official uniform to perform a sexual imaginary scenario (or indeed for any reason, if it makes the public question whether the person is in an official police/fire/ambulance/medical/whatever role.

Twitter is a cesspit of people (men actually, are we allowed to say that?) pushing boundaries. The old "you don't have to look" trope is wheeled out regularly, but to me that's no better than the old "you don't have to look" at people having sex in car parks, waving their dicks around while "being naturists" or just generally pushing the boundaries of what is ok.

Kink shaming should be celebrated not quashed. Kink in real life, in front on unconsenting adults and unable-to-consent children should never be ok.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 13/12/2021 23:35

I share your concern, OP. And I agree with Artichokeleaves - We absolutely need to talk about where the lines are about non consenting people being coerced into becoming part of someone else's sexual experience. Particularly when public spaces are used to gain access to those people and their presence (and reactions and discomfort) may be an active part of the desired experience.

This is all so terrifyingly out of hand.

Linguini · 13/12/2021 23:01

It has to be a concerted campaign of repeatedly sending someone pictures of your erection, after they've been told by the recipient not to do that, for the police to take it seriously as harassment.

The campaign is to specifically add cyberflashing to the list of offenses under the online safety bill.
This would put the onus on social media platforms to do something about it or face fines.

Currently social media platforms don't care if unwanted pictures of erections are flying in the face of women, because it's between two adults.

It's up to us to report it to the police, provide evidence it was unwanted and the sender knew it was unwanted, it's a whole load of faff basically and the police won't be bothered.

The bill is a great idea because social media platforms won't want fines.

MargaritaPie · 13/12/2021 18:56

Even if "cyberflashing" isn't already a crime per se, wouldn't it be covered under existing laws? eg if someone was sending sexual images to you without consent that would be sexual harassment wouldn't it?

ChattyLion · 12/12/2021 23:43

Thanks for the link, I didn’t know that about Scotland- so we need a new law for the rest of the UK and a UK wide public campaign against this harassment and intimidation then.

ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 23:13

I see 'cyberflashing' has been illegal in Scotland for 12 years!

Can't say I've heard anything about it being criminal or anyone having been prosecuted under this law.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10301219/Influencer-sent-hundreds-unsolicited-sexually-explicit-images-past-10-years.html#comments

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ChattyLion · 12/12/2021 22:50

I really want cyber-flashing to be made illegal with strong criminal penalties. I can totally believe it’s often a gateway to other crimes against women. It’s sickening and deliberately intimidating.

It’s so ubiquitous that it is now considered ‘normal’ for girls and women to get loads of these images. Let that sink in. ‘Normal’ and part of the normal female experience. That is a totally fucked up position that we have arrived at in less than a generation. Many of us who are older or less visible on social media will have absolutely no idea of the onslaught of male flashing that some girls and women are getting.
This a massive problem for girls at schools.

Please write to your MP so they know that this is something that voters really care about and that we are relying on them to make this criminal because at the moment the flashers are getting away with it constantly. There should also be a public health warning campaign around cyber flashing too like drink driving to make it completely socially unacceptable to do this.

It’s yet another example of how unprepared as a society we are to deal with the social consequences of smart phones and social media and their impact on women. The phone and social media companies are raking it in and doing fuck all to stop this. So the government must act now. We live in a massively sexist culture which enables this to be done by some men with impunity and that behaviour is widely tolerated. This shouldn’t ever be acceptable.

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 12/12/2021 21:20

A surprising number of serial killers have a transvestite paraphilia.

Ed Gein
Russell Williams
Jerry Brudos

There are must be half a dozen more but I can't remember off the top of my head. I am fascinated by forensics - it blows me away - and I used to be very interested in serial killers, though that's worn off. But I remember being struck by how common it seemed to be.

ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 20:02

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769077/

'Delineating what is normal versus deviant or disordered sexuality is one of the biggest challenges when using the term paraphilia. The definitions under paraphilia within the DSM have been highly debated and highly controversial [22], and, given the lack of change to definitions and diagnostic criteria in the real sense, this would seem set to continue. The malleability of sexual pleasure across time and cultures creates problems for those defining and diagnosing paraphilia and the efficacy of treatment of paraphilias synonymous with sexual offending is inconclusive. The ability to imprison and/or commit an individual based on their future “dangerousness” using a mental disorder or psychiatric criterion as justification [35,36] may potentially violate due process rights [37]. At the heart of the issues still lies the much debated question: “what justifies the classification of a source of sexual pleasure or a type of sexual activity as a mental disorder” ([22] p.195)?'

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ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 19:59

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8275528/

Sex Differences in Voyeuristic and Exhibitionistic Interests - study of over 1,000 people.

'this study replicated the well-established finding that the sexes differ, on average, in how repulsed they are by voyeurism and exhibitionism and that sociosexuality and sexual compulsivity mediate these differences. Using an evolutionary perspective, which sees sociosexuality as a proxy for mating strategy, we predicted and found serial relationships between these mediators. We also found sex-specific patterns underlying exhibitionistic, but not voyeuristic interest, highlighting the importance of examining the sexes separately. Sociosexuality and sexual compulsivity also accounted for sex differences in the intention to commit voyeurism, but not exhibitionism, which appears to be universally unappealing perhaps because of its more “active” involvement.'

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ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 19:52

1 in 20?! I had no idea. That is ... what, 1.7 million men in the UK?

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Linguini · 12/12/2021 19:47

Yes I totally understand.
There are obvious parallels between sending unsolicited dick picks to people you disagree with because you want to intimidate and unnerve them to make a point, and someone with a paraphilia for exhibitionism, where the act is the only or one of the only ways for them to experience sexual arousal.
JK Rowling probably got an eyeful from both types.

I wonder if greater awareness of these things might help young women navigate society
There needs to be a government public awareness scheme on paraphilias. They affect about 1 in 20 men, and men with a paraphilia will go to extreme lengths to fulfill their sexual "needs" including design their entire lives and careers around it. They're masters of manipulation and pretence.
Most women (and normal men) are blissfully unaware.

ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 18:41

Yes, Linguini, I appreciate it's quite a wide net. I guess the wider issue is how far are women expected to accommodate/tolerate men's sexual proclivities and fetishes.

I think I was thinking of the parallels between paraphilias and exhibitionism and flashing and 'cyberflashing'.

I would have thought all of these things stemmed from similar impulses, no? Cyberflashing is not akin to flashing?

Thanks for the link. I wonder if greater awareness of these things might help young women navigate society and social media?

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Linguini · 12/12/2021 18:02

^erection pictures

Linguini · 12/12/2021 18:01

You're addressing two different things in your post.

Both worthy of discussion definitely, I'm really pleased the WebMD article was reviewed as recently as 2020 and still says what it says. It is a good overview.
As you pointed out, this particular article does not go into detail about how paraphilias escalate, that is often overlooked.

This entry from MedicineNet goes into slightly more detail, but most pertinently includes this factor:
Many people who suffer from one paraphilia have more than one. For example, about one-third of paedophiles also have another paraphilia. More than half engage in three or four such kinds of behaviours rather than just one. Most people who develop a paraphilia begin having fantasies about it before they are 13 years old
www.medicinenet.com/paraphilia/article.htm

I don't think enough is made of this.
Seeing as AGP (Transvestism) is listed as the fifth most common paraphilia in men, and those with AGP are highly likely to carry more than one other paraphilia such as voyeurism/exhibitionism/worse, it makes it all the more crucial that women's spaces are protected.

That aside, sending unsolicited erecting pictures online to women you don't like has nothing to do with paraphilia or sexual arousal, and everything to do with wanting to make the recipient uncomfortable, unhappy and worried.

It's an act of aggression like sending an actual worded threat of rape and should absolutely be outlawed.

ArabellaScott · 12/12/2021 17:45

Good question, Margarita. I have no experience of this. Where do they send them?

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MargaritaPie · 12/12/2021 17:43

Will this include the unsolicited spamming by OnlyFans "creators" who send messages (which often include crude sexual images and videos) advertising their profile?

EricCartmansUnderpants · 12/12/2021 17:40

You're suggesting Grayson Perry has the potential to be a sex offender? That's a terrible accusation to make. Incredibly ignorant.

What is ingnorant is the fact that you have clearly never read Grayson Perry's insight into this. Before throwing false accusations at other posters, I suggest you go and educate yourself on what Grayson actually did say about this topic.

InvisibleDragon · 12/12/2021 17:11

This article about trophy-taking behaviour in sexual predators also seems relevant here:
uncommongroundmedia.com/trans-identified-males-should-not-be-accessing-womens-spaces/