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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boy in girls changing rooms

41 replies

MissFenella · 11/12/2021 14:02

DD year 7 has told me there is a boy using their changing rooms for PE. She has been trying to swerve PE the last few weeks and I asked her why.

I am going to pop an email to school pointing out single sex exemptions and the importance of the girls welfare.

Has anyone done similar or have a link to a suitable template etc. Just want to get my facts right without being overly emotive.

TIA

OP posts:
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FemaleAndLearning · 19/01/2022 16:45

Not read the whole thread.
I heard rumours of a male pupil using the female facilities at our secondary school. He has been wearing a skirt since September.
I copied Safe Schools Alliance in and they gave me good feedback on replies. I also copied Ofsted I and made it a formal complaint to ensure they answered me. I put safeguarding in the subject header. Mention girls who have or are being abused and religion (girls who are Jewish or Muslim).
I posed it as a question, but make sure you use biological sex as I had to ask for further clarification as I used girl and boy.
Schools should not be allowing this. Unfortunately there is some bad guidance out there e.g NSPCC who say a child can choose which facilities to use.

Good luck.

Lovelyricepudding · 19/01/2022 16:44

I suspect the boy had been told by online supporters that he had a right to use the girls and it was discriminatory and transphobic if they were given privacy or allowed boundaries.

LaChanticleer · 19/01/2022 16:27

Congratulations @MissFenella Glad it's been sorted.

Although am I a horrible child-hating cynic to think that the boy made a "mistake" about changing rooms "accidentally on purpose"? Year 7 is about the age when naked bodies become suggestive ...?

Helleofabore · 19/01/2022 10:44

That is great news OP.

Goatsaregreat · 19/01/2022 08:17

Well done OP. This is what happens when parents stand up for the rights of our daughters. This awful, woman hating stuff will continue in schools until parents speak out and insist that girls are allowed to undress etc without men and boys being present.

Have you checked their policies to make sure that they're not unthinkingly influenced by the toxic Stonewall ?

Datun · 19/01/2022 06:36

It shocks me so much. Imagine someone telling you in the year 2000 there would be men allowed in women’s toilets and spaces in 2022 and it was bought in with no discussion and everyone would be too afraid to complain about it and maybe under threat if they did so.

This. Its unbelievable isn't it?

And sending rapists to women's prisons and telling rape survivors to reframe their trauma to agree men aren't men.

everyone would be too afraid to complain about it and maybe under threat if they did so

Awful, woman hating stuff.

timeisnotaline · 19/01/2022 03:16

Phew. I know he’s just a child but so very entitled of that boy to have been told you can use these separate changerooms but not the girls and think I deserve to use the girls and go in anyway.

NumberTheory · 19/01/2022 03:07

@MissFenella

just to finish this up - he shouldnt have been in the changing room. Separate private accommodation has been made available to him and he doesnt have a choice about using that or not.

So resolved perfectly, quickly with no fuss or drama. Gives me hope for common sense!

Very glad it's fixed from the perspective of the girls and that you only had to talk to them calmly and sense prevailed.

Worrying that he "shouldn't have been in the changing room" but no teacher realised. Did they have an explanation for that or a plan to safeguard the girls by ensuring it didn't happen again?

Also a little worrying if the "no choice" means they aren't giving him the choice to change in the boys if he wishes. As denying him access to the correct sex changing room because of his gender identity is illegal discrimination and them not realising that suggests they don't understand the law and are liable to change with the winds if someone isn't happy with the new arrangement.

FrankBurnside · 18/01/2022 19:53

Well done op.

OhHolyJesus · 18/01/2022 19:48

If you are able to OP can I suggest you write to Lord Lucas and Baroness Nichols to record what happened? You could could your MP too to make them aware.

Sounds like it was a textbook case of being dealt with swiftly with everyone's best interests at heart. Well done!

Toseland · 18/01/2022 19:46

I'd be concerned that your daughter is being unwillingly coerced into some very passive ideas about her right to boundaries and privacy.

I’m very concerned that ALL girls are being coerced in this way.

Not only that but our children’s experience of life is being diminished and restricted further on top of how hard things are for women and girls already.

It shocks me so much. Imagine someone telling you in the year 2000 there would be men allowed in women’s toilets and spaces in 2022 and it was bought in with no discussion and everyone would be too afraid to complain about it and maybe under threat if they did so.

Where are all the people who should be protecting women and girls? Where are they? The politicians, our government, the police... even M&S changing rooms.

They are standing idly by waving their rainbow flags.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 18/01/2022 19:19

great update!

FlibbertyGiblets · 18/01/2022 19:17

Well done. No fuss or drama needed, excellent outcome.

Rightsraptor · 18/01/2022 19:14

Very glad to read that, @MissFenella. Thanks for coming back and letting us know.

MissFenella · 18/01/2022 18:44

just to finish this up - he shouldnt have been in the changing room. Separate private accommodation has been made available to him and he doesnt have a choice about using that or not.

So resolved perfectly, quickly with no fuss or drama. Gives me hope for common sense!

OP posts:
WarOnWoman · 23/12/2021 09:05

Safe Schools Alliance has this:

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/singlesextoiletsfactsheet.pdf

Email school quoting the relevant law. Talk about safeguarding, dignity and privacy for the girls. Get support from other parents. Get a meeting with the Head. Do all this as a starting point and then escalate as necessary using school complaints procedures and contacting school governors.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 12/12/2021 15:38

These girls are being brought up now not to value themselves or their boundaries. Their feelings must always be subjugated to males. The feelings of the male is paramount. This must have some awful insidious effect on their self esteem

It's incredibly serious isn't it? The very people who girls should trust to help reinforce boundaries about privacy and safety (schools, the NHS, lawyers, the Guides) all actively coercing girls to accept male bodies next to them when undressing, showering, even sleeping. Let alone the pretence that there are no differences between the sexes in terms of sport.

YouSetTheTone · 12/12/2021 15:28

No. The male child should absolutely be provided with somewhere separate from the other male children if preferred as no one should have to change without feeling dignity, privacy, safety, and that applies to equally to females not just to males.

Completely agree.

These girls are being brought up now not to value themselves or their boundaries. Their feelings must always be subjugated to males. The feelings of the male is paramount. This must have some awful insidious effect on their self esteem.

When these girls are in relationships will they consequently willingly accept being choked during sex? When they’re in the workplace will they always defer to their male colleagues during meetings?
In extracurricular activities will they accept without demurring poor safeguarding practices?
In sporting endeavours will they take it as given that their achievements can be removed on a whim by a person of the opposite sex identifying as a girl/ woman?

op I hope you have some success standing up for your daughter.

SolasAnla · 12/12/2021 13:24

I always think what school is putting a single girl female into a changing room with teen -boys males???

Has anyone ever seen this happen in the UK?

Or is it that the schools reputation risk from sexual harassment etc has a sex bias and is assessed differently?

Artichokeleaves · 12/12/2021 11:05

It's blunt insanity.

Girls, the boys will be changing in separate rooms because privacy, dignity, this is important for all of you, we believe in this wholly and have policies about it, and will never permit for any of you to be uncomfortable or at risk by mixing the groups after a certain age point.

Oh, this boy now prefers to identify as a girl?

Girls stop being so unkind and wanting privacy and dignity and safety! Your objective experience of changing with a boy must be completely dictated by this boy's subjective sense of self, and your priority is not you but him. Your boundaries must always be predicated on whether or not a male person agrees with them, and if they are sad and upset by your having needs or feelings that you'd like the male person to respect in return then you are being a Very Bad Person.

It's male supremacism, there is no other term. It is that plain.

No. The male child should absolutely be provided with somewhere separate from the other male children if preferred as no one should have to change without feeling dignity, privacy, safety, and that applies to equally to females not just to males.

The female children's feelings and equality is not some kind of ritual sacrifice that adults must make to a trans child to demonstrate sufficient care for them. No child in this situation matters more or less than another one does.

SolasAnla · 12/12/2021 08:49

@Outdoorbeanbags
Are you focusing on the other child with your daughter?

Be blunt with your child, she comes first, second and all the way to last when it comes to her right to her feelings and her right to privacy.

One of the hardest lessons as an teen is not to go along with group think.
Group bullying stems from one ringleader being able to manipulate others into joining in. You would be disappointed if she joined in because she was "just following the crowd".

Drinking, drugs, sex unhealthy relationships etc all are areas where your child needs to make decisions and make them for her benefit not to be liked or to fall in line with what everyone else is doing.

The other child is positioning to be top of the social pile. Confident enough to claim special status during talks about puberty. How will the school deal with sexual reproduction lessons will that be different too?

The schools safeguarding policy should not have some males or females allowed into the spaces reserved for the opposite sex.

@MissFenella
I am going to presume that your school is an all Christian population? Because allowing mixed sex changing rooms and toilets is one of those subtle ways that exclude children from races and religions which would rely on the single sex exemption.

littlbrowndog · 12/12/2021 08:41

It’s weird. W3 teach girls to have boundaries yet soon as the magic words are spoken boundaries fly out the window.

A girl not wanting to take part in sports because a boy is in her changing room

Another girl ashamed of her body in case a boy is upset by it

Wtaf is going on in our schools

Gaslighting extreme

BethnalGreenBambinos · 12/12/2021 08:16

Outdoorbeanbags - I could cry for your poor DD - feeling guilt about her own absolutely valid feelings and her own body.

If you are worried about singling her out, you don't have to say she is uncomfortable with the situation, but that you are. She's a child - even if she said she wasn't uncomfortable you should still be, because what is happening is wrong.

Outdoorbeanbags · 11/12/2021 23:55

I do know 1 or 2 mums

Outdoorbeanbags · 11/12/2021 23:55

Thank you for your advice. My daughter has only just disclosed about the changing thing and how it makes her feel tonight. I will look at the safe schools stuff.