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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Out, proud and now quite a bit nervous

106 replies

Boood · 09/12/2021 11:30

Was just walked through the “privilege wheel” in a team meeting. Was forced to ask why there was no category for biological sex and explain that gender identity is not a suitable replacement.
And now I’m throwing JKR and Maya Forstater references around like they’re going out of fashion and thinking, oh fuck.
Please hand hold, share stories and advise how I keep it grown-up and employed without caving.

OP posts:
NoNotMeNoSiree · 10/12/2021 02:08

I think it means not necessarily in a job seeking or dating pool way doubletweenqueen, more of an everyday homophobia type way just by simply '' being '' you.
In a way that being heterosexual wouldn't bring

DoubleTweenQueen · 10/12/2021 01:39

How would someone dealing with both men know? Unless they knew them pretty well?
Wouldn’t really be on their CV when going for jobs etc, and manager may not be aware when assessing for promotion.
Can’t really think of a situation where it would come into play, to be honest, unless considering dating pool :D

Very odd wheel.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/12/2021 00:39

Do you think a gay man is more privileged than a bisexual man, and if so how?

NoNotMeNoSiree · 10/12/2021 00:25

@CatherinaJTV

It looks like that wheel did its job and everyone is thinking about their privileges?
Yes, I am Seriously, how on earth are people having a problem with it (and I don't mean because of sex omissions) People eye rolling at the whole thing, even skin colour and WTAF at etc?! You're in serious denial if you think that being white, not trans, heterosexual etc does not have more privilege than others. I've not seen this wheel before and it's made me think.
ShagMeRiggins · 10/12/2021 00:11

This is a different take, but why out sheltered/renting in the same privilege category for housing? Those are hugely different.

Also, I wonder if anyone ticking a few of the outer ends of the wheel come away feel underprivileged or if they’re also meant to “check” their privilege as well.

Finally, after one checks one’s privilege, then what? Any advice given on that? Or
Is one meant to simply add it as a mantra for every day life? How does acknowledging privilege change things for the less privileged? Or is it yet another way to tell people to shut the fuck up.

Nikki078 · 09/12/2021 23:56

@Whatsnewpussyhat

So the 'gender' segment moves privileged males from top dogs to being the most 'marginalised' just because they say they are women.

They couldn't put sex though could they as that would only need 2 parts not 3.

If 'sex' part of this wheel included people with DSD it could be easily added.
MonsignorMirth · 09/12/2021 23:03

@Manderleyagain

The wheel has wealth, but includes 'middle class' as between poor and rich. The wheel doesn't have class. The wheel is wrong.
Exactly what I was going to say (see LangCleg, I was listening over the years!!) - Class is a MAJOR FACTOR.

As has been pointed out, was downloaded from a Canadian website. It's embarrassing the providers of this can't even think about the actual society we are in and its unique, deeply ingrained privileges.

CreepingDeath · 09/12/2021 20:14

It also makes me think of the episode of Gender a Wider Lens when they were talking to a detransitioner about how she and a lot of her peers began to identify as non binary as they felt they had too much privilege as white middle class students.

Yeah, it seems to be just another way to get attention or sympathy, whilst retaining all the benefits of their nice lifestyle.

AnyOldPrion · 09/12/2021 18:43

Yeah, I was confused by that one too Confused how would anyone even know you were asexual?

I’ve thought that for a long time about “all the other sexualities” being brought in under some kind of “umbrella” and needing special legal protections on the supposed grounds that sexuality should be more widely protected. I mean why? The reason lesbian and gay people need protection is presumably because if you have a same sex partner, you shouldn’t have to hide that fact. But a partner is visible, where any other “sexuality” can be kept private, and indeed in my opinion, generally should be, at work and in public, at least.

AdamRyan · 09/12/2021 18:24

Being asexual makes you more vulnerable than being a gay man?
Yeah, I was confused by that one too Confused how would anyone even know you were asexual?

WomanStillNotAFeeling · 09/12/2021 18:21

Race and racism is considerably more nuanced than skin colour Hmm. As a SirSamuelVimes points out height and physique are very different

RepentMotherfucker · 09/12/2021 18:13

And a bisexual man is less privileged than a gay man, apparently. Why?

Oooh oooh! I know!

Is it because if he ever says 'I am bisexual' some arsehole will pipe up with 'OMG how dare you imply there are only two genders? I'm so triggered.'

TheMarzipanDildo · 09/12/2021 17:52

Is your workplace going to hire homeless non-English speakers or is this just more meaningless virtue signalling bollocks?

If we ever needed a reminder of how neoliberal this ideology is... They are basically saying “you’re privileged to be in a job, you should shut up now”. Aren’t they?

TheMarzipanDildo · 09/12/2021 17:46

@RepentMotherfucker

Being asexual makes you more vulnerable than being a gay man? Not in pubs in the town I grew up in it didn't.

And I am rich and working class. Not sure how that works...

Yes that is the weirdest thing. And a bisexual man is less privileged than a gay man, apparently. Why?
WalkOnGildedSplinters · 09/12/2021 17:37

Well I’m a genderfluid yo-yo dieter so my wheel is constantly spinning.

RepentMotherfucker · 09/12/2021 17:29

@CatherinaJTV

It looks like that wheel did its job and everyone is thinking about their privileges?
I totally am. And I am delighted that gay men are so comparatively privileged. I will tell that to my mate who got smacked in the face in a pub last year by someone who called him a 'fucking poof'.

'Just imagine how bad it would have been if you had been there not really wanting to have sex with anyone,' I will say, 'Check your fucking privilege.'

RepentMotherfucker · 09/12/2021 17:24

Being asexual makes you more vulnerable than being a gay man? Not in pubs in the town I grew up in it didn't.

And I am rich and working class. Not sure how that works...

allmywhat · 09/12/2021 16:45

I wonder how much the trainer was paid for this half-arsed training based on a Canadian graphic that probably doesn't even make much sense in Canada.

WinterTrees · 09/12/2021 16:40

@CatherinaJTV

It looks like that wheel did its job and everyone is thinking about their privileges?
I guess so, if its job was to highlight what a load of half-baked flawed logic lies behind the victim heirarchy.
CatherinaJTV · 09/12/2021 16:34

It looks like that wheel did its job and everyone is thinking about their privileges?

SirSamuelVimes · 09/12/2021 16:23

@ErrolTheDragon

The 'size' one is bad ...I think they mean slim v fat rather than size as such. Because in all sorts of ways including physical strength, and the world being designed for them, large people are decidedly privileged over small people.

Oddly enough the missing sex category to some extent covers and explains that because of bimodal size distribution in humans. Hmm

Absolutely. And there are different types of size too, which have different impacts.

So as a 5'11" woman, I am privileged in some ways as I am closer to the average male height than many women so things like cars 'fit' me better. But as a size 18 woman I am have less privilege because I'm fat in a society which judges that very negatively. So I am both privileged and not privileged because of the same factor on the wheel.

(Even further nuance - being both 5'11" and size 18 means I get a lot less hassle from random dickhead men in public, because I am not smaller than them, therefore I am not an easy target. Why pick on the woman who is taller and wider than you when you could pick on a skinny 5'2" woman? But then that same combination of factors is deemed unattractive by most men, who generally seek romantic/ sexual partners who are smaller than them, and so I am disadvantaged when it comes to finding a romantic partner. Gosh, it's almost as if the human experience is rather complicated and not easily expressed in a wheel of nonsense, isn't it?!)

ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2021 15:38

The 'size' one is bad ...I think they mean slim v fat rather than size as such. Because in all sorts of ways including physical strength, and the world being designed for them, large people are decidedly privileged over small people.

Oddly enough the missing sex category to some extent covers and explains that because of bimodal size distribution in humans. Hmm

Scraggythang · 09/12/2021 15:25

Well done for your bravery btw, op.

Scraggythang · 09/12/2021 15:24

I got a bit tipsy on a Christmas party this weekend and it all came pouring out during a related conversation. Part of me is terrified that everyone hates me, the other part doesn’t really give a toss because that fear doesn’t change how I feel and what I know. They can think what they want.

Crouton19 · 09/12/2021 14:59

It also doesn’t include age (they never do include age), though age works for and against you depending on the situation (which is exactly the nuance that gets missed on these awful training sessions).

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