If a general election was called, who would you vote for?

If Labour are so catastrophically stupid they genuinely men can be women because ‘feelings’ then I have no confidence in their ability to implement any of their policies

If they don’t believe it but are just saying it because TRA are scary so beee kind and anyway just women then they are spineless cowards

Neither is a good look

I’ve only ever voted Labour & I live in bloody Liam fox’s constituency so chances of him being unseated are slim to bugger all. Id never vote for him but equally I won’t vote for the She/her Labour candidate we had last time so a spoiled paper it is

They are introducing photo ID for voting, to solve a supposed problem with impersonation that doesn't exist

Fifteentoes - do fascist dictatorships allow citizens to vote?

Things you are objecting to such as restricting protest and controlling the media are also practised by Communist governments - or is communist rule ok because it’s left wing?

I don't agree. But we're all entitled to our opinion. As far as I'm concerned Blair caused much of the shit this country now finds itself in. An absolute failure. What a legacy he left. He should be in prison.

Blair is up there alongside the worst prime ministers this country ever had.

I think identity politics has been adopted by the left and the young because they are too afraid/defeated/ignorant to push left wing economics. The elders in the left movement go along with it because they think it appeals to the young. But because its bullshit it will end up destroying the left. Well it already has really.

Spot on. Gender bollox and critical race theory is just a bauble , a consolation prize. Sorry you can't have decent health , housing, schools and public transport- here have a pronoun. Take as many as you like. They're free. Vote Labour/Green

But that's the diametric opposite of what's actually happened. Labour DID have solid, radical, carefully funded proposals for decent health, housing, schools and public transport in its last two manifestos, and were told people couldn't possibly vote for it because it was too much left wing economics.

Even if you take the opposite end of Labour, when it was actually in power - the Blair government did far more for all those things (except possibly housing) than the Tories ever did before or since, while simultaneously adopting "identity politics".

It's like people just really want a government that's going to attack identity politics with a force that reflects the anger they feel, so they spin this story that that's what equals left wing economics and standing up for the working class. Therefore Boris Johnson is a left wing prime minster and the Tories have made life great for the working class through a decade of austerity. And then don't seem to notice that that's not actually how it works.

I wouldn't continue to support a Labour government that abused its power to make itself untouchable the way the current Tory one is doing. In fact I won't be voting Labour next time for that reason - because I believe Keir Starmer is exactly such an unprincipled authoritarian and will do nothing to reverse the process. I have a real problem with people who are willing to vote Tory despite it. It means that they don't just have different opinions from me, they're willing to see the system abused so their opinions can be imposed upon me without the right to a fair conversation and process.

They are introducing photo ID for voting, to solve a supposed problem with impersonation that doesn't exist. Which will likely reduce the number of poor, young, itinerant, migrant etc. people able to vote. Who tend to vote Labour. What a coincidence. As well as overseeing boundary changes to increase the already-existing extent to which the Tories need fewer votes than Labour to win more seats.

They are steadily challenging and undermining various structures that exist to call the govt. to account and provide legal checks and balances upon them. From the electoral commission to the parliamentary standards authority.

They are interfering with the supposed impartiality of the BBC and getting Tory donors and high supporters into key positions. They already have direct contol over most of the rest of the media, but that's not enough apparently.

They are introducing the police crime and sentencing act to place far greater restrictions on the legal right to protest and effectively give police the right to prevent people protesting for the flimsiest of reasons.

They have massively abused the power of government to hand publicly funded contracts during the covid epidemic to their own mates, many with no due process of tender or monitoring of value.

I did say "voting for the DESCENT INTO fasicsm", not that it was actually a facsist government already. But abuse of democratic process to make the government effectively dictatorial without meaningful chance of being removed; the focusing of all power in that government without a meaningful legislature to contain its excesses; government control of the media and dissemination of information; the repression of protest; not to mention the use of minorities (benefit claimants, immigrants) as targets for popular aggression to unite enough of the populace behind them - these are the absolute, classic features of fascism. They are basically the definition of the word.

What would you call it?

Judging by some of the comments that’s not entirely the case here. I have no doubt that if we had an election tomorrow where only mumsnetters could vote they would elect a liberal, green or Labour government or similar and then shout furiously as these MPs that they had just elected passed into law the very policies they said that they were committed to passing into law if elected.

I don't like this version of telling off either.

Anyway, who people say they'll vote for and who they actually vote for are two different things.

This thread is a great example of how we got here.

In a democracy like ours elected representatives don’t always do what the electorate want but the electorate do always get the elected representatives that they vote for.

That’s what happened after Brexit when the politicians refused to do as the majority wanted and deliver Brexit. In order to get Brexit done the Brexit supporting majority did the only thing it could do and replaced many anti-Brexit MPs with candidates committed to delivering Brexit and dozens of former ‘safe’ Labour seats got their first conservative MPs in decades in the process. That is in fact the only way we ever could have gotten Brexit because if an MP really, really doesn’t want to vote for something then they won’t.

But Brexit voters were smart enough to vote based on the policy that mattered most to them at the time.

Judging by some of the comments that’s not entirely the case here. I have no doubt that if we had an election tomorrow where only mumsnetters could vote they would elect a liberal, green or Labour government or similar and then shout furiously as these MPs that they had just elected passed into law the very policies they said that they were committed to passing into law if elected.

I think it was the Gordon Brown / Gillian Duffy incident that marked the beginning of the end for me and Labour. At the time I made excuses for him, but then the attitude towards Brexit voters pretty much confirmed for me (even though I'm still a remainer) that the left really don't like the working classes very much. And all that was before I'd even heard about self ID.

As working class I’ve always been uncomfortably aware Labour assume they have the right to decide what is best for working class communities without talking to them and largely regard us with paternalistic benevolence when the we’re doing and saying what Labour feel is appropriate and regard us with sneering contempt when we deign to disagree with the Labour luvvies opinion.

Seeing them apply similar principles to women as a sex class and insist the males identifying as women know better how women should behave and think was a whole extra level of fuckwittery.

At least the Tories simply don’t care about either. I’ll take that over sneering contempt and policies that deny my autonomy and lived experience.

I think identity politics has been adopted by the left and the young because they are too afraid/defeated/ignorant to push left wing economics. The elders in the left movement go along with it because they think it appeals to the young.
But because its bullshit it will end up destroying the left. Well it already has really.

How anybody can happily vote for the brazen and active undermining of democracy itself and its descent into fascism, is really beyond me.

God help us.

Yeah, see, the hyperbole also doesn't do the left's arguments any favours. I am no huge fan of the Tories on the whole, I favour a more leftist economic/social policy, but to call the Conservatives 'far right' or imply they are fascists is just inaccurate.

I would vote Labour, my MP isLouise Haigh & she is brilliant, she fought for me when I lost my enhanced PIP & helped sort things to get SEN support at school for ds.

The rest of the post.

1. We are NOT AMERICAN. They are totally different to us. Totally. We share a language. That's about it. Why this constant referencing USA on here? It's very strange. I don't know why it happens so much.

1. Unless something huge changes. Tories will walk next election. And it won't be because of a few women with no strong political leanings voted that way. Obviously.

Nope. It'll be same as everything. Women's fault.
In this case women, sorry people with vaginas who wouldn't do what they were told...

You are aware that on this issue, given it affects women and girls full stop. That the board has posters with loads of different views, from different countries etc?

The fact is that women, like men. Have a wide range of political views.

It feels like you assume that all posters on this board are or should be of the same view. Definite left (not even floating in middle), anti Tory. To care about the actions of the current govt (and past conservative govts I assume).

And then to come to chastise women for not being/ thinking how you expect them to.

Do you REALLY think women who have deep seated political views of the various left wing political philosophies.
Would think. Oh well so what I'll vote Tory.

If you believe that.. it's a really dodgy view of women really.

The fact of people prioritising the issue of gender over the Tories' awfulness on so many other issues is one thing. I don't understand it, but hey ho.

But after how close the USA has just come - and is not out of the woods yet with the ongoing effects of Trump-appointed judges etc - after literally seeing the entire edifice nearly collapse under the weight of the lies, manipulation, pig-headed denial of due process and deliberately generated culture war -

How anybody can happily vote for the brazen and active undermining of democracy itself and its descent into fascism, is really beyond me.

God help us.

Gorgeous George

I used to quite like him. Can't remember why now!

Then came out with load of shit about impolite sex or whatever it was. Donned a fedora. Ah. Bog standard bloke, thinks he amazing, casually spouting off opinions on women, without a second thought. Same old same old.

So many about like that. Depressing.

And why and how did we get here?

Because bottom line is political system was created yonks ago here, by men for men. To consider things that men found important.

We only the same voting rights as men in 1928. We have more representation in parliament and the overall govt machine, currently highest ever at 1/3. And that pattern repeats across areas that have influence over govt etc.

I have some eye opening stats just say if like to see!

Anyway. This situation has for many women confirmed totally what many knew deep down, that many knew deep down but preferred to keep... Not thought on too much.

Which is that when it comes to the crunch the parties say women and girls are as important as men. It's bollocks.

Whatever individual political slant. Essentially some care somewhat about certain types of women. And some think they care, it's obvious, therefore they must do, full stop.

In the end the parties that are the larger well known handful. Either aren't interested or, imo, are busy cheerleading women and girls being totally utterly fucked over.

Which group are the ones this gender> sex thing benefits? Men. And not just men with direct interest. It's all men in the end. Of course the vast majority are totally unaware of that. But that's the overall result.

Vote as you see fit. Imo it's going to be Tory no question anyway.

And this fight sits outside that anyway.

(Could think local/ pick a woman if a choice of ok candidates... I would vote for a woman any party if she had indicated not impressed with gender/sex, prob if she had said nothing but had track record interest women girls, and wasn't a total arsehole. And fuck me. What a position to be in.)

For me (and to me after years of posting reading thinking etc it's pretty definite iyswim).

• Party politics is irrelevant. Yes there's a lot to talk about on their approach to this and of course their overall political stance. That is separate.

This is about women and girls. Half the population. All of us. Left, right, old, young, rich, poor, disabled or not, whatever race, skin colour, country born, religion.
And how this works globally? That question is ALWAYS ignored or swerved (funny that).

ALL women. It's about fundamentals of... Everything for us. And not by halves. Right down to leaving us with no words to describe us as a group globally or as an individual, by the most fundamental characteristic shared. No words for the CONCEPT of us. Gone.

This is not party political. It IS a single issue. Sure. The way this topic is dismissed that way is infuriating.

It's a single issue in the way other groups who have been/ are now being fucked over fight for change.

Single issues can be massive issues. Women's rights are a massive issue. Global. Entrenched. Not trivial (FFS).

This is about ALL women. Separate from an election in one country in the world (that's a foregone conclusion anyway).

Oops posted too soon.

The party political thing - that keeps on being raised discussed argued etc and of course I totally understand why etc- but with this topic it's beside the point.

Of course left v right is massive and deeply important including to me. But in this topic. It's not particularly relevant. (Bear with me I know the left have gone bonkers on this subject I know. No one needs to remind me!).

On this thread there has been criticism for anyone voting on single issue. No it's not trivial, plus LOADS of voters in the country vote on one or two issues. Many just vote for who they always vote for. Tribal etc. So... Single issue is so minimising, and if the case so what anyway. Hardly uncommon.

Being prompted to, or ending up Tory v labour etc is in s way easy. I am vv totally could never vote X. I get it.

But in this it just distracts.
It doesn't help.

(And unless seismic change in labour, Tories will get in for sure. And the libdems green etc etc are essentially out the game in a way they didn't used to be).

Sorry posting when get a free minute!