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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

BBC 100 Women List - Gender is contentious

168 replies

highame · 07/12/2021 16:20

I'm sure there was a thread but I can't find anywhere. Did it get deleted. Anyway, here's a good article by James Kirkup

www.spectator.co.uk/article/gender-is-contentious-the-bbc-is-pretending-it-isn-t

This is yet another fine article from James Kirkup
The continuation of this argument is that including transwomen in the category of women is harmful to natal women and against the interests of natal women. These harms can take many forms. In law and policy, the 'transwomen are women' approach can mean the erosion or removal of boundaries around single-sex spaces. In culture and society, 'transwomen are women' diverts attention from — and potentially devalues — the unique experiences that natal women have based on their female biology and socialisation.

And when finite resources are allocated, 'transwomen are women' means that some things that might otherwise have been allocated to natal women are given to people who were born male. It is a simple statement of fact that because the BBC awarded some places on its 100 Women list to transwomen, those places — and the status and acclaim they bring — cannot be given to natal women.

He has a fine way with words

OP posts:
pickingdaisies · 07/12/2021 17:18

@allmywhat

I question the inclusion of Rebel Wilson and Vera Wang but it looked like the other 95 women were very impressive humans indeed. Smile
Don't know about Vera Wang, but I saw Rebel Wilson being interviewed today, and she was very impressive indeed.
Theeyeballsinthesky · 07/12/2021 17:17

All 100 people on the list are very impressive people - people not women

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 07/12/2021 17:17

How to say that some of the people on the 100 women’s list are the wrong sex while still being an MNHQ approved ‘nice lady’

Tricky innit?

allmywhat · 07/12/2021 17:16

(And I’m not doubting the achievements of RW and VW but they seemed slightly out of place on the same list as the other 95.)

Sittinginthesand · 07/12/2021 17:16

Home from work to find that my original thread on this had been deleted. FFS, in what world is it sane that I’m going to have to use asterisks to say that although they were brave and admirable people (I used these words) it was a shame to see some m* on a list of w and I wondered who the w** who missed out were. IT’S A FACT 😡

EndoplasmicReticulum · 07/12/2021 17:15

I have nothing to say on this issue. Shh, be quiet, it's all fine.

Soontobe60 · 07/12/2021 17:15

@FuckeryOmbudsman

'Old lady moment'

WTAF - ageism and sexism in one comment

Please do not write off older women in this way. It's not light-hearted or funny. It's everyday sexism and casual ageism

Even if it’s self-disparaging????
pickingdaisies · 07/12/2021 17:14

I haven't noticed anyone bashing anyone. I have only seen people agreeing wholeheartedly with the Spectator article, which spelt out very clearly that all 100 people on the list were very impressive. That much we can all agree on.

allmywhat · 07/12/2021 17:14

I question the inclusion of Rebel Wilson and Vera Wang but it looked like the other 95 women were very impressive humans indeed. Smile

Artichokeleaves · 07/12/2021 17:13

That thing sailing over your head helpless is the point.

There is much I would like to say. However like the three women pushed off the list to virtue signal how much more important one biological sex is than the other (regardless of how much everyone is forced to pretend sex is not a thing) if I try to say it I shall be vanished.

Riddikulus.

Lovelyricepudding · 07/12/2021 17:13

There are three women who deserve to be on that list.

AssassinatedBeauty · 07/12/2021 17:12

@HelplesslyHoping

Ah another thread aimed to bash women who are more successful than the commenters. All 100 women deserve their place on the list, only men and misogynists seem to disagree
Any chance you could actually engage with what people are saying rather than plopping with your accusations?
WarriorN · 07/12/2021 17:12

@Beamur

Placemarking to read later

That's optimistic!

HelplesslyHoping · 07/12/2021 17:11

Ah another thread aimed to bash women who are more successful than the commenters. All 100 women deserve their place on the list, only men and misogynists seem to disagree

BlackboardMonitorVimes · 07/12/2021 17:06

Natal Women seems a better phrase than CIS Women. I'd prefer Women to mean as it does in the dictionary, but if you have to have a term, then natal women is less jarring.

WomanStillNotAFeeling · 07/12/2021 17:05

Thank goodness for James Kirkup a man can say it even if women are not allowed

trumpisagit · 07/12/2021 17:04

I had a too brief flick through the list first thing this morning, and thought phew, it actually is 100 women.
I wish....

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 07/12/2021 17:02

BBC misogyny at it’s finest.

jhuizinga · 07/12/2021 16:59

I wonder if certain threads have disappeared today because they draw attention to evidence that our national broadcaster's editorial policies have been influenced by its membership of a certain scheme. Anyway, all the deletions etc convinced me that I needed to make time today to make a complaint to said broadcaster.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/12/2021 16:58

As ever a thoughtful article from James who has persisted in covering the debate. So glad that the Spectator is allowed to cover the issues. Let's hope other social media and media organisations continue to do so.

oldwomanwhoruns · 07/12/2021 16:55

Has the BBC learned nothing from the Nolan investigation?

Pixiedust1234 · 07/12/2021 16:54

free bump

Innocenta · 07/12/2021 16:53

It's ludicrous if MNHQ won't allow this list to be discussed! I can't fathom why they'd presume anything anyone might want to say is going to be transphobic...? My comment before was about overrepresentation of media and Hollywood/fashion vs underrepresentation of athletes. I scarcely think that can be interpreted as some sort of nasty comment about trans people (and absolutely wasn't intended as such).

Why can't we discuss a list like this?

Beamur · 07/12/2021 16:51

Placemarking to read later

ISpyCobraKai · 07/12/2021 16:50

V interesting article.
I'd comment but I do believe it's against site rules.