FB Groups and JK

And the question of 'what is a woman' is not a 'time wasting question', as a woman I'm quite offended you would say that. I think it's a very important question, in fact it's probably the key question to this whole debate.

Which is why TRAs are always so reluctant to answer it.

Variations in sex development are in and of themselves deviations from the binary conceptions of sex.

[quote SusannaQueen]Ecclefechan tarts have raisins, lots of. The Scottish equivalent of fly pie

[quote Wavedancer99]@foxgoosefinch
Correct, gender is not binary and neither is sex.

Referring to "man" and "woman" as the "binary" identities is a colloquialism, derived from the fact that these two identies are part of the binary that you are trying to impose.[/quote]
Oh honey, no.

I know you think you are here 'educating' all us horrible feminists but you're just making yourself look silly.

I'm perfectly able to, I just don't care to answer the same time-wasting question for the hundredth time.

It's always 'the hundredth time' of not being able to answer the question of 'what is a woman'. Always.

Despite no one ever seeing the first time!

Come on let's have it.

[quote Wavedancer99]@foxgoosefinch
Correct, gender is not binary and neither is sex.

Referring to "man" and "woman" as the "binary" identities is a colloquialism, derived from the fact that these two identies are part of the binary that you are trying to impose.[/quote]
'Man' and 'woman' are not colloquialisms, they are accurate words to describe something, same as table or air. You believe in adults, yes? And humans? And sex IS binary (in humans), there is only a male and a female sex. 'Woman' is an adult human female.

Correct, gender is not binary and neither is sex.

How is sex not binary? What is the third sex?

[quote Outlyingtrout]**@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet* I've also asked several times for @Wavedancer99* to give their definition of "woman" but predictably they don't seem able to.

Anything that actually gets to the crux of the debate, TRAs always avoid answering because it exposes their argument for what it is: nonsense.[/quote]
I'm perfectly able to, I just don't care to answer the same time-wasting question for the hundredth time.

We both know how this goes, I give you my answer, you reject it and assert how ackshually it's #SexNotGender and it never gets everywhere because we just get the usual circle of idiocy.

If you think 'woman' is a gender identity, what attributes would you expect someone with a gender identity of 'woman' to have?

Yes, I'm interested in this question as well. What does it mean go have a 'woman' gender identity? What might that look like?

So going back to the nonbinary thing, @Wavedancer99 - where is this identity? (It would be good if you defined the term identity for me, too.)

Is non-binary identity purely in the mind/psyche? It must be since nonbinary people do not literally have unsexed bodies, no?

Tell me, if it is just in the mind, what makes “non binary identity” different from “national identity”?

As good anti colonialists, should we be all be able to identify as African, or maybe Bangladeshi?

Why not?

And you think that just pretending that the categories of male and female just don't exist is the way to get men to stop raping us? How? Do you think they will no longer be able to tell who are the men and who are the women?

@foxgoosefinch
Correct, gender is not binary and neither is sex.

Referring to "man" and "woman" as the "binary" identities is a colloquialism, derived from the fact that these two identies are part of the binary that you are trying to impose.

Being trans means having a different gender identity than assigned at birth, and non-binary people's identities are different than assigned at birth, therefore they fall under the trans umbrella.

But what are these gender identities based on? If everyone just chooses one, how do they decide which one to choose? Are there common features of the different gender identities?

If you think 'woman' is a gender identity, what attributes would you expect someone with a gender identity of 'woman' to have?

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet I've also asked several times for @Wavedancer99 to give their definition of "woman" but predictably they don't seem able to.

Anything that actually gets to the crux of the debate, TRAs always avoid answering because it exposes their argument for what it is: nonsense.

I do think that rendering gender categories more flexible and malleable, and rejecting the idea that our biological sex says anything about what we "should" be (including being a "man" or "woman"), that would be a good step in the right direction and a great challenge to any "sex-based" gender roles.

How is that going to help women get better maternity care, for example?

(In fact one might surmise that the entire idea of the “trans umbrella” is unmitigated fanciful made up bollocks that is completely logically inconsistent and incoherent 😂)

Why do you think conservatives are all suddenly teaming up with you? Because they see you as an opportunity to reassert the rigid gender categories.

@Clymene with you on that - not a fan of mince pies either. Do Eccelfechan cakes have raisins in normally? If so, I'll just go for a Bakewell tart.

*How and why would it be the opposite?

Non-binary gender identities are identities that exist outside the binary identities of "man" and "woman".

Being trans means having a different gender identity than assigned at birth, and non-binary people's identities are different than assigned at birth, therefore they fall under the trans umbrella.*

So trans people believe they have the “opposite” of the binary identity man/woman because not to be one is to be the other (that’s what a binary means);

THEN how can non-binary people have an identity that isn’t in the binary? Trans reinforces and depends on the binary. But “non-binary” depends on the idea that there is either something outside a binary (more than two terms); or that there is an intermediate area between the binary; a third term.

If gender is not a binary but a spectrum, then trans people are all just non-binary, aren’t they? (Because if non-binary exists, then in fact everyone is then non-binary, no?)

So how can “non-binary” be possible at the same time as “trans”? One relies for its entire identity on a binary the other says doesn’t exist.

The gender identities of "man" and "woman" are assigned based on what is observed.

Man and woman are not 'gender identities'.

The word woman means 'adult human female'. In the same way that 'mare' means 'adult female horse' or 'ewe' means 'adult female sheep'.

You can't just start changing the meanings of words because you feel like it. Words have meaning and are how we communicate.

What is your definition of 'woman'?

To say that homosexual people are nasty and dirty would be homophobic. To say they are totally normal but do not happen to be heterosexuals is not homophobic. Get the pattern?

Ooh they sound interesting clymene maybe DD could have one after her banana Weetabix

That's called the sex @Wavedancer99. Male and female. We're all one or the other.