FB Groups and JK

It’s like shooting fish in a barrel on here some nights but I must get to bed soon.

You still haven’t told me what makes gender identity different from national identity, wavedancer.

And if there isn’t any difference, why should I not have my birth certificate rewritten to say that I was born in Russia? Does it matter whether or not that’s true as long as I feel like I’m Russian?

How Animal Farm

About being able to use the labels we feel comfortable with, live and express ourselves the way we want, instead of having a rigid labels, rules, and expectations forcefully imposed on us.

But you seem to think it's perfectly OK to forcefully impose your worldview on others who don't share it.

"a rigid labels, rules, and expectations"

a rigid set of labels, rules, and expectations

Autonomy for some people, but not for others.

"You know why - you want the labels and the pronouns, you just want it to be the ones you like, with some rules you want."

Y-yes? That's the fucking point? It's precisely about personal autonomy and self-determination.

About being able to use the labels we feel comfortable with, live and express ourselves the way we want, instead of having a rigid labels, rules, and expectations forcefully imposed on us.

Are "stag" and "doe" socially constructed gender identities? Do you think these categories are imposed and enforced through social pressure?

So there's no such thing as a woman in material reality, but transwomen are women?

You're just babbling now.

And then you go right back to talking about "male behavior" and imposing gendered labels, names, and pronouns on people, and insisting we segregate based on sex. Do you think the act of segregating based on a specific characteristic isn't assigning social importance to that characteristic?

This is all completely incoherent. How can you tell us this and then also say “trans women are women”? You’re doing all the assigning, labels and so on yourself. If you believed all of this you say, you’d be telling trans people they are all nonbinary and shouldn’t be using any gendered pronouns at all, in fact if we went by your claims all mention of man and woman would disappear and we would all be nonbinary “theys”.

So why aren’t you on some other social media, similarly lecturing the trans folx that they are assigning social importance to gender and that they should just stop imposing gender on everyone?

You know why - you want the labels and the pronouns, you just want it to be the ones you like, with some rules you want.

These categories are imposed and enforced through social pressure.

Bimodal spectrum my arse!
Nice word salad.
Here is a paper that hands you your arse. Not that you would ever know it. But for those with critical faculties, enjoy.

www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2021/03/23/debunking-the-bimodal-sex-spectrum-graph/

Except there aren’t a whole range of DSDs. There are a very limited number of them.

Do you think the act of segregating based on a specific characteristic isn't assigning social importance to that characteristic?

It's like asking "how many numbers are there that are greater than 0 and smaller than 3?" You'd insist there are only two, but the actual answer is there are infinite. 1.6 and 2.3 are numbers.

You're thinking only in "whole" numbers, but the thing is, while there isn't a specific "third number", there's a whole range of numbers in that spectrum that aren't 1 or 2.

And assigning social importance to sex is gender.

OM fucking god, SO CLOSE.

Just that little bit more….and then….

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

I'm perfectly able to, I just don't care to answer the same time-wasting question for the hundredth time.

It's always 'the hundredth time' of not being able to answer the question of 'what is a woman'. Always.

Despite no one ever seeing the first time!

Come on let's have it

Yep. So predictable.

It's probably the question that the whole debate hinges on but they don't have a real answer for it so that's why they avoid answering every single time. They think a woman is either a collection of offensive and outdated stereotypes, or they think a woman is "anyone who says they're a woman" which renders the word utterly meaningless.

It's a bimodal spectrum composed of different characteristics, different chromosome combinations, etc. Variations in sex development are in and of themselves deviations from the binary conceptions of sex.

AAAAAND yet again:

It is not a “bimodal spectrum”.
Discrete variations are not a spectrum.
Otherwise there would be an infinite number of positions possible between male and female;
Except there are mathematically only a limited number of sex chromosome and SRY combinations.
A few rare outlying positions (less than 26) is not a spectrum. It is a set of additional discrete positions, not a continuous variation.

Making "sex class" some permanent fixed label that follows someone literally everywhere they go in literally every social interaction is assigning social importance to sex.

And assigning social importance to sex is gender.

I love a mince pie but I can't get fruit cake out of my head for some reason.

It's a bimodal spectrum composed of different characteristics, different chromosome combinations, etc.

That's not an answer to 'what is the third sex'. If sex isn't binary, there must be at least third sex. What is it?

Do you accept that one sex class has, throughout history, oppressed the other sex class. And has always been able to tell who is of which sex class in order to carry out that oppression?

And has managed to do so without any of this utter guff about sex being a spectrum.

Referring to "man" and "woman" as the "binary" identities is a colloquialism, derived from the fact that these two identies are part of the binary that you are trying to impose.

No, trans people are imposing the binary, aren’t they? And so are you, because you also say trans women are women, trans men are men. That’s the binary right there, isn’t it? You’ve just imposed it yourself.

If we take away the binary, as I say, then trans people are non binary. So am I, so are you. Ergo “trans” doesn’t exist.

So why can’t I say “trans women are not women, they are non binary”. That’s the logical result of not imposing the binary, isn’t it?

How do you reconcile the two then? How is it possible to say “TWAW, TMAM and NBP are NB”? You’re imposing the binary even as you pretend to validate NB people.

Suggests you either don’t really believe in trans, or you don’t really believe in non-binary. Which is it?

Thought experiment, wavedancer99

What if the words 'man' or 'woman' told us an individual's sex... and literally nothing else about them?

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

Ooh squashed fly biscuits.

Do you like them wavedancer ?