FB Groups and JK

If sex and gender are the same thing, then female catheters are appropriate for anyone who says "I am a woman".

And sex and gender must be different things surely or we wouldn’t be encouraging children to take hormones, have surgeries and become life long medical patients, surely?

Do you think it was "black superiority" to end racial segregation without paying any regard to the "concerns" around letting black people into "white spaces"?

This is a disingenuous comparison, because you’re equating white people = women here and black people = men.

It not only doesn’t work, but even to get the analogy a more appropriate way round it would be more like ending racial segregation by forcing black people to accept white people coming in to all their churches, clubs and social events and demanding to be treated as black.

But the real reason the analogy doesn’t work is that sex was still there as well in your example. Black women and black men were still treated very differently both before and after legal equality.

I thought you were all supposed to be hyper aware of intersectionality? Your post is not very intersectional at all - very much the reverse, in fact.

extract from the Nursing Times

As every nurse is likely to insert a urethral catheter at some point, they need to be surethat they are using a catheter of the correct length.

Catheters are commonly used in acute care, in patients’ own homes, in social care and in nursing homes. They are manufactured in a range of different gauges and three lengths: female length (20-26cm), standard length (40-45cm) and paediatric (30-31cm).

The sex difference in urethral lengths means that, should the shorter female length catheter be used in males, the inflation of the balloon with water occurs within the male urethra rather than the bladder. This can cause severe urethral trauma and result in pain and haemorrhage, or longer term effects such as urethral strictures, retention or incontinence.

Clinical practice differs between healthcare settings. Some areas will stock only standard length catheters and use different gauges for male and female patients. In other areas, the use of shorter female length catheters, which have no clinical imperative, are used for patient dignity issues such as concealing catheters under skirts.

Between January 2006 and March 2009, the National Patient Safety Agency received 114 reports of serious harm from errors where shorter female catheters had been inserted in males. The result was a range of serious outcomes for the patients, including cases of acute renal failure or impaired renal function. Some patients required additional medical or surgical procedures to correct thetrauma.

In April 2009, the NPSA issued a Rapid Response Report (RRR) on the risks of female catheters causing urethral trauma in men, with the aim of making practice safer.

Examples of actual incident reports: Patient catheterised on admission by staff nurse. No urine seen or drained over a few hours. A doctor informed and he was unable to remove the catheter or deflate the balloon. A urologist was then called, who deflated the balloon with a needle through the penis. Large clots were passed. The patient had been catheterised with a female catheter.

Admitted patient had a female length catheter in male patient. The patient wasadmitted with acute renal failure. He wasrecatheterised with an appropriate catheter and conservatively managed. Renal function recovered.

Patient presented to A&E with urine retention. He had had a female catheter fitted the previous day by his district nurse.

He said that she told him she had no male catheters and asked if he minded having a female one.Frances Wood, clinical reviewer, NPSA

But man and woman are social categories, and regarding trans women as "male" and treating them as such is to opposing trans equality, isn't it?

Do you think it was "black superiority" to end racial segregation without paying any regard to the "concerns" around letting black people into "white spaces"?

When in the UK did this happen?

The UK already gives rights to gender reassignment as well as sex.
What rights do you think trans people are missing?

“Do you think it was "black superiority" to end racial segregation without paying any regard to the "concerns" around letting black people into "white spaces"?“

It’s not the same thing. It’s not like before we had women’s toilets women and men all used the same ones. Women just didn’t go to public toilets. It was called the ‘urinary leash’- a good way of keeping women in the home.

"I'm a woman and I don't have a gender identity."

"I'm a woman" is the part where you're stating your gender identity.

Just because you're basing your gender identity on your physical characteristics, does not mean you do not have one.

*ones

People in glass houses can't answer questions eh @Wavedancer99?

To change to something

1. the thing to change to has to exist (2 sexes exist)
2. Changing has to be possible...

XX and XY exist, but no, they aren't interchangeable.

Nope, if you're not accepting of trans women having the same rights as cis women, then you are not in fact accepting trans people as equal.

This is baffling. “Rights” are not the same as “equality”. A child or a non-British citizen is not less equal to an adult U.K. citizen when they do not have the “right” to vote. A man is not less equal to a woman because in general it’s accepted that he shouldn’t go in the ladies’ loo.

You’re inadvertently arguing both that men and women aren’t equal in the first place (because a trans woman retains all their legal rights anyway); and also conflating social norms (there often to protect women) with “rights”.

I don’t have a “right” to go in the John Lewis ladies’ loo in the first place. It’s a service provided to me but I don’t have a “right” to it. There are social expectations that women will use one set of loos and men another. If a man wants to call himself a woman, he doesn’t suddenly acquire or lose any “rights” about those loos. Other people don’t have to believe in his new label as if it is fact. They can self-determine too, and why should they rearrange their social expectations based on someone else’s new label? After all, you’ve told us labels are meaningless.

To regard trans women as "male" and demand them to be socially and legally categorized as such is to oppose trans equality.

Equality does not mean “the right for my own labels to be taken as fact”, does it? Especially if labels are meaningless and socially constructed. Because then anything I decide to label myself is the basis of law. If I say I am a disabled Venezuelan woman do I get to access scholarships on that basis or complain I am not being treated “equally”?

Equality in law refers to fact, not imagination. I can’t identify into other protected characteristics. Why not?

For example, when I'm asleep, do I continuously flicker between a state of maleness and femaleness?

What if I'm in a coma?

How do you feel about this definition of a woman Wave? I’m not keen personally

I prefer ‘adult human female’ because it presumes nothing about the way I dress, the activities I enjoy, my personality type...

It's odd how some people who use the word 'woman' to mean 'person with a feminine gender identity' have such trouble understanding that those of us who don't believe in gender ideology use it to mean 'person of the female sex'. I'm a woman and I don't have a gender identity. I experience gender as oppressive and limiting and so I don't identity with it, I reject it.

In relation to the OP, I'm in a particularly geeky fandom circle, and I once came across a site stating that anything Rowling-related wasn't allowed because of her views. All other authors were allowed, including those who were appallingly, undeniably racist or sexist in their writing. At that point it isn't even purity spirals/cancel culture. It's just an excuse to hate her.

*there

"Cis is a made up nonsense term. It's a Latin prefix which means 'on this side of' which has been co-opted (incorrectly) as an antonym for trans."

How is it incorrect? Your gender identity (describing yourself as a "man" or "woman") is quite literally on the same side as what you were assigned, and is in alignment with the label that is socially mandated based on your physical characteristics.”

I don’t fucking have a gender identity (same as most women on this thread I suspect), so how can it match my sex?

I know that I’ve been treated like shit at various points because of my sex, don’t see what it’s got to do with my gender identity/ lack therefore of.

If you're calling yourself a "man" or a "woman", then that is your gender identity.

You're performing a disingenuous sleight of hand here, conflating "knowing what sex you are" with "having a mysterious woman essence feeling".

I can also deal with the ongoing deer overpopulation issues by assigning them all as does.

No more fawns then!

Perhaps you could also define 'gender identity'.

But you're making the assumption that males being categorised as women has no effect on anyone else. It does. It affects women. So to make demands for these males without consulting women is treating those males as superior and women as an inferior category of people who are not allowed a say in how society is run.

Exactly. We're being told to accept trans superiority, not asked to "support trans equality".