FB Groups and JK

"Sex-based" segregation should not exist.

Can you expand on this? You think everything, prisons, hospital wards, refuges, sports should be mixed sex? How will that benefit women exactly?

In that case, does that mean intersex women born without "large gametes" or XY chromosomes aren't women?

Yes, anyone who wants complete and total exclusion of any and all trans women from women's spaces is transphobic.

Can you define 'transwomen' here please? Who exactly are we talking about?

Also, on what basis should men who say they are women be allowed in women's spaces?

So if a male says he is a man, he should be kept out of women's spaces, and women have the right to ask him to leave? But if a male says he is a woman he should be welcomed in with open arms?

And you can't see anyone ever taking advantage of that kind of policy ever?

My DH is not a threat to women, should he be allowed into female spaces? What objective difference is there between him and another male who happens to identify as a woman?

Can you link to the evidence which tells us the exact point in transition where a transwoman comes out of the high risk category of male and into the low risk category of female?

Sure thing:
twitter.com/christapeterso/status/1416599964214448130

You mean from one of the people who led a sustained campaign against Kathleen Stock?

@Wavedancer99, here’s the fundamental question: do you really, really, genuinely believe that men who say they are women change into women?

How do they do this?

I’d really like to hear your response.

Not really, because I don't consider one's gender identity to be dependent on biological sex at all.

Did you manage to have a think about my previous question?

What is a woman?

@Wavedancer99 I am not sure if you genuinely don’t know what you did (I suspect that is the case) or if it was a deliberate act.
Either way, it says an awful lot more about you then the poster you were ‘quoting’.

JK Rowling is fantastic. It’s a bit late for wine - anyone fancy a digestive?

And hormone treatment isn't a way to change sex. Again, it enables the body to mimic secondary sexual characteristics. It doesn't affect gametes. Women needing HRT aren't any less women because they need treatment. Their bodies are inherently female.

May I have an answer to this post please @Wavedancer99?

I'd genuinely like to know how you feel about the statements I've made.

So no links?

And by this sexual characteristics, do you mean superficial changes to mimic secondary sexual characteristics such as breasts or the actual gamete producing aspects of sexed bodies which is the differentiation between the sexes?

And it's not feigned incredulity. If I am given an actual piece of evidence which shows conclusively that human beings as a species can change sex, it would be fascinating to read. As I said, paradigm shifting.

But despite many, many posters coming on here and staring as fact 'human beings can change sex' and going on at length about 'pseudoscience', they've never actually been able to provide any evidence.

It's very tiresome (but very informative for the many lurkers).

You're being patently disingenuous.

Sex is a sum of physical components, and many of these components can be altered through treatments like hormone therapy, altering the body's sexual characteristics in the process.

What are female "components"? What are male "components"? How many of these components need to be altered in order for an individual to change sex? Are you saying that only someone with a pre-determined amount of female components can be a woman? Isn't that extremely transphobic of you?

Yes OppsUpsSide, that one took my breath away too. So blatant.

Actual racism is a form of bigotry, yes. Factually stating that black people commit more crime per capita and have average lower IQs is not.

Wow, you just showed your true, dangerous colours @Wavedancer99

What would be the point in having single sex spaces if the opposite sex can use them?

Women's changing rooms, toilets, refuges, prisons?

The reasons for these being separate are SEX based.

So if people of the male sex can enter places specifically for people of the female sex, this erases the reason for having them in the first places. Reasons for which women fought for for decades. For physical safety, security, modesty for religious or cultural reasons, and dozens of other reasons.

Do you believe that the reason people with penises want to use these spaces is more important than the reasons that women don't want to use them?

And if the answer is yes do you dispute that this makes you a misogynist?

Or do you believe that women that have been raped, abused, beaten, attacked, by men, have no right to a single sex space?

OP there will be plenty of people like you who are either horrified or rolling their eyes into the back of their head on these FB groups. The problem is, because of agressive TRA tactics women don't feel safe to speak up. So it creates the illusion that there is complete support for this bullshit when in actual fact it's very much the minority opinion. Almost everyone back in the real world knows what a man is, knows what a woman is and knows that one cannot turn into the other.

[quote Waitwhat23]@Wavedancer99 please link to a peer reviewed scientific journal paper or article which shows evidence that human beings (a dimorphic species) can change sex. If this is indeed true, this will be paradigm shifting, breaking world news type stuff. I'm surprised I haven't seen it in the newspapers!

Yes, those particular "facts" (which are actually gross oversimplifications that aren't remotely supported by the scientific community), are in fact just pseudoscientific bigotry.

Who are the scientists who are stating (against all established knowledge about the human body) that humans can change sex?[/quote]
Sex is a sum of physical components, and many of these components can be altered through treatments like hormone therapy, altering the body's sexual characteristics in the process.

You have seen this in the newspapers, and your feigned incredulity is tiring.

There are some FB groups that have completely lost the plot in this regard, however, there is still masses of support for JKR. It all depends on the group admin.

I have yet to have anyone show any evidence of her words, to support the claim that she is transphobic.

Campaigning against the inclusion and bodily autonomy of trans people under the veneer of "feminism".

Inclusion in society? I don't think anyone here is saying that trans people should be excluded from society.

Bodily autonomy? You mean the right of trans people to alter their bodies as they wish? I don't think anyone here is saying that adults shouldn't be able to do that. But it is important to protect children from making irreversible changes to their bodies.

Hostility, exclusion, and demonization of/against trans people.

And yes, deliberate misgendering and constantly lashing out over anything that includes or accommodates trans people is hostility.

Of course trans people should be included in society. But people with penises don't belong in women's spaces.