Zara - male bodies in female changing room

@KittenKong

This one?

metro.co.uk/2020/02/20/trans-shopper-banned-using-mens-changing-room-ms-12272268/amp/

They/them seem confused. Myla was born female but tells the shop assistant “I’m not female”. Okaaaay.

@FindTheTruth

I like the sound of what you say but am not up to following it completely.

Would you mind putting it forward again in a simpler way?

Thanks

I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.

AKA "You hold the maxim that these were men and the onus is on you to prove it."

As @femmeloves twitter says:
"But this is actually a trick. One thing that deconstruction gets right is that meaning proliferates. So what this question does is ask you to put forward more maxims, then like whack a mole, your annoying queer theorist can ask you to defend each of them. There's no winning."

and

"There is almost no point in arguing with a person using these tactics, because they are not playing the "rational argument" game."

I’m a soft bugger though although I’m sure it was a shirt... I wouldn’t try on a shirt.

@KittenKong

I'm struggling to feel sympathy for her because it is shit like this that has got us into this mess.

Just use the changing room for the sex that you are. That's it.

Wonder if many women try to use the men’s. There was a non binary (female body) who tried to use a M&S changing room (Aberdeen?) in the men’s dept and was told that there was a ladies elsewhere.

Of course this ruined their shopping and they went home crying (and I’m going to be understanding here - they were buying a shirt for a funeral so may have been feeling a bit sensitive to state with).

However it did make the newspaper and a grovelling apology and promises were issues by the store.

But a woman who is standing in her undies when a man ‘accidentally’ pulls back the flimsy curtain gets told to suck it up buttercup and not to upset the other ladies??? Or on the case of a gym, banned.

Well they need to stop. Deceiving women and teen girls into thinking that the changing rooms they are using are female only. Then ushering men in to the room after women have started to undress? This is sick. Grotesque.

The only way to stop this is to not buy as much as a stitch from any store that allows/encourages men to go into women's changing rooms.

That's it really and we have the power to do that. Every time one of buys anything from these stores, they use it to validate this dangerous stupidity.

Economics will always take sway over half baked 'woke' ideas that a man can be a woman or a poodle or a mushroom.

It's already inclusive by segregating by sex. If it needs to go further than that then it should be mixed sex instead of men's and keep the women's just for women. I dont suppose many women would want to use the men's, but it's an option if they want to share with men. Better this way than letting the men into the women's.

This could all be resolved by making it law that shops must display signage with one of three options: male changing, female changing, mixed sex changing.

That way, shops who want to be inclusive (to males) and provide mixed sex changing rooms can do so and customers can assess if they're happy with that or if they want to take their business elsewhere.

If mixed sex changing then turns out to be the future of retail so be it, I would be one of many sticking to online shopping. What is not acceptable is this attempt to deceive customers by unclear signage because shops know that informed customers would not actually consent.

I'd wager we'd quickly see either expensive refits to include cubicles, or perhaps a return to male and female changing, plus a few mixed sex cubicles.

And yes, I do wonder if they all realise quite how many of these men are heterosexual. Not that it makes any difference.

It doesn't make any difference. But I think there's something here.

Not forgetting parents who have put their children on this path and are heavily invested as their livelihood job depends on it

As cartman said himself, 'I've got a golden ticket'.

Who are the people in these government positions that have never asked women what they want?
Activists? Men who think they should be able to see women undress? And so telling women that men can be women provides the magic key?
Women who are gullible enough to believe the lie?
Who else?

And yes, I do wonder if they all realise quite how many of these men are heterosexual. Not that it makes any difference.

But it's extraordinary how other heterosexual men aren't, apparently, given a free pass, just those who say some magic words.

Yet no organisation / government has ever asked women whether we consent to having men intrude into spaces where women and girls undress and are vulnerable. Why do you think that is?

It's a puzzle!

Male supremacy on steroids.

I'm still trying to get my head round this. Those women who think that trans women are women. Is it because they think they're gay men underneath? Gay men have always been given certain privilege around women in the way that they talk explicitly about sex and the way they behave. Women often just laugh it off. Because they're gay. Safe?
The gay best friend that is a thing for some women. Is this what it's about?

Whatiswrongwithmyknee

You forgot one. ‘It’s the Mail’. And the journalist works for the Mail. (Doubly shameful it seems. )

DB178
I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

I wonder if this poster ever reads back what they have written?

What a load of codswallop!

Being kind to males datun. That is the underlying theme.

I can feel assured the teenaged female non-binary and transboys I know all would feel very uncomfortable having males in their changing rooms. Because ultimately they know that male trans people are just that. Male.

Their answer, so as to not be labeled transphobic by their friends, would be to exclude themselves. So again, females exclude themselves to be able to make males feel good.

This post seems to have descended along familiar lines. The same anti-women's rights arguments are being aired in order to avoid discussing the actual issue. So we've had:
You should be kind (but not expect kindness)
It's the authors fault for not waiting for a cubicle
Changing rooms like this don't actually exit (!!!)
You're in an echo chamber (despite the fact that women are asking for actual discussion starting with a definition of 'woman' which TRA have refused to ever offer).
Some women have always looked a bit like men so there is no need for women to have separate spaces (even though that 'fact' has not stopped women being paid less, sexually assaulted etc. etc.)

So the usual weak 'arguments' designed to bully women into submission. Nothing new to see here.

I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed

Why should entitled men need support from half naked women who are buying clothes, underwear, etc?? She's buying a Christmas top, not running a soup kitchen. Shall we just have one big section for adults and children too? That way, we can support children and they can support us, whilst everyone gets changed, yay.

Women aren't a service. We're not a resource to validate men, against our own interests.

Is there any part of you that even thinks about the women and girls in this situation? Anywhere? Even for a second? It's mind blowing how your entire focus is the men. The women getting changed should be supporting them, did the woman even ask them why they were in her space, how can she tell they're not women, did she check, challenge, question?

The answer to what's in it for women always appears to be to fulfil their role as a service human.

Strewth.