Zara - male bodies in female changing room

5 years ago men never had the brass neck to walk into womens changing rooms

Women on here defending them

What’s wrong with you who defend them ?

Cant belive it

I see one poster has said that women aren’t realistically at risk from men in the changing rooms. It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where such fears are irrational, but this poster seems incredibly naive if they think that men in women’s changing rooms don’t pose any risk to women. I know a perfectly normal guy who was just jailed for filming in women’s changing rooms and toilets over a period of many years. Voyeurism is a crime. It’s mostly done by men. Honestly, we are expected to believe that trepidation about men in changing rooms is irrational?

but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

Did they go up to all the women in the changing rooms and speak to the to find out whether the women's would still be appropriate for them if they used it? Can you explain why you have chosen to ask one group of people (women) to do all the work here rather than the other group (men)?

"There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs. I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.”

If you think we should support each other, can you tell me how women are being supported?

@Cordyceps I accept that voyeuristic men aren't necessarily dangerous but explain to me why women have to put up with it?

^ 100% what Terfydactyl said

[quote Cordyceps]@DoubleTweenQueen my point, perhaps badly made, is that people think that a man in the busy Zara changing room makes it unsafe, while a strictly female-only changing room is safe. That perception is wrong. It doesn't mean that someone is wrong for feeling unsafe in one situation and safe in the other - I know, logically, that I'm not at risk being alone on the top deck of the bus with 10 teenage girls. That doesn't mean I'm wrong to feel my illogical fear, but then again, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily the bus company's responsibility to make me feel better about the situation. I don't think that, realistically, any woman is at real risk in the specific scenario of "man in the Zara changing rooms" and I don't think they have any particular obligation to make people "feel" safer by policing their changing cubicles. You may disagree. It'a a big wide world and people have different opinions.[/quote]
In the way of life, women are less strong than men. I'd rather take my chances fighting off 10 teen girls than one man.
The bus is a public space and has cameras that record movement and often sound. If I were to be assaulted by a man on a bus, the cameras would likely catch that, and his image and I may get a resolution. Note "may"
In this particular news article its actually men, plural. Not one man alone.
You think a woman stands any chance at all if two men decided to assault her? You are much mistaken. Again I'd prefer to take on the teen girls.

Now I personally dont give a shit about unisex changing rooms, mainly cos I dont use changing rooms at all, ever. For reasons.
But I do give a shit about women who do use changing rooms. And they are as entitled as any man is to say they want only single sex. That is their right in law.
If we must have unisex changing rooms, the easiest and cheapest way is to make all mens from now on, unisex.
Solved the issues for women in one easy move. Didnt even cost money.
If men for some reason do not like this idea, they can do what all us women have done for the last however long. Suck it up buttercup or campaign to change it.

I sent Zara a message over FB saying I will no longer allow my daughter to shop there. If several hundred women did the same, they just might take notice.

Hard of reading and differently brained.

This is absolutely wrong but I'd like a few more men going into changing rooms occupied by senior women in the media in their bras. More sunlight please

I love the women on this board 🤍💜💚

Men shouldn't be in women's changing rooms.

How difficult can it be? Seriously?

I feel like I'm dealing with three-year olds here.

It doesn't matter if they aren't dangerous. It doesn't matter if they're well-intentioned. It doesn't matter if they "feel" like a lady inside.

If they're men, they shouldn't be in a women's changing room, any more than a 35-year old should be in the toddlers' ball pit at the local play centre.

The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs

What needs? It's a frickin' changing room, not therapy.

Women's Right Network is doing a #AllIwantforChristmas campaign supporting female only spaces. The more help they get - the better!

twitter.com/WomensRightsNet

@DBI78

From your previous comment:
"There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs. I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.”

There are two sexes - male and female. They are legally protected characteristics. The changing rooms in the article were designated thus.

There are potentially millions of ways to define one’s own beautifully unique identity, (I find the current political gender ideology list ridiculously limited), but that doesn’t change which changing room you ought to head for, if they are designated by sex. If we can all get our heads around that basic fact, we can enjoy being completely in agreement and supportive of each other quite nicely.

The refusal to acknowledge reality only perpetuates division and mistrust, which is a great shame.

DB178
There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs.

No. It's not about having to supply different changing rooms. It's about men wanting validation from using the women's changing room.

If all the women upped and left, the changing room would no longer appeal. The new space that they occupied would become the focus.

It's got nothing to do with the actual space, and everything to do with the women in it.

Which is why it's a waste of time appealing to provision. Wherever the women are, that's the place that will be targeted. It's about the women providing validation, not a place to get changed.

Women are the resource. Not the shop, the space, the provision.

Chances are these two just did because they could. Absolutely no consideration for others. Being challenged would just add to the fun.

So how are we supposed to know someone’s intent?

And even if there were 1000 different types of changing rooms, TRAs would use women's changing rooms to prove a point.

DB178
There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs.

That should read "and three or four hundred other ways to identify".

And to meet all needs, every shop would need several hundred changing rooms, one for each gender.

The issue, as anyone with a brain can tell after about three seconds' thought, is not with "men and women". It is with men who do not respect boundaries, decency or common politeness.

My OH was very much of the "I know three or four trans women and they are fine and non-threatening and you like them, why do you have a problem with self-ID to make their lives easier?" brand.

He has had to be carefully taught better over several months that not all predatory men are like our perfectly decent friends who are not predatory (and don't have male genitals any more). Exhausting, but it was that or leave him if he used the word "cis" one more time.

I am fairly sure most men in positions of power have no skin in this game at all, they just want to grease the squeaky wheels that make such an annoying noise at them.

Or she could have written an article highlighting problems with changing rooms without blaming individuals.

What, two totally unidentified men?

Without a tangible example of this sexist policy, women are told things like they can't tell, nothing will happen, etc. There are websites and ongoing threads on this very site called 'This Never Happens' listing all the times when it does. Awfully, illegally and fatally. Just to counter the gaslighting.

I'd absolutely like to know from these specific men why they feel entitled to violate women's boundaries. Who told them they could.

But you don't even want them held accountable for their own actions!

[quote DBI78]@NeverDropYourMoonCup

Or she could have written an article highlighting problems with changing rooms without blaming individuals. Ie challenging shops etc to do better and be more inclusive. And I agree I wouldn't have approached customers in that way either although I don't assume men are out to attack but I just wouldn't have thought to at the time. Also I wouldn't write a public article complaining about individuals without knowing the full story.[/quote]
Do you notice how when you say individuals what you actually mean is males?

Your view of their so very great importance and how very difficult and uncomfortable it is to have to think twice about saying no to them is written all over this. 'Inclusion' is actually only inclusion if it means equal ease and freedom of access for all. And that does include female people. Many of whom can only access a space if it is female only. The main problem you have with the article is its equality of thinking instead of being heavily filled with signals to males that obviously they're most important. Obviously their needs are huge and taken very very seriously. Obviously we're not generalising here because that would be awful. So now we've stroked the ego and patriarchy a lot, might we just mention that it would be really nice if male people might consider not excluding women from women only spaces in meeting their own -

bigot? witch? rage/sexual violence threat/police/misuse of the word 'inclusion' suggesting it applies only to males?

Gosh I'm so so sorry, obvs I should not mention female people do better.

The sexism here is so very, very sad. The fear to value females equally. The fear to even mention their needs.

The problem with 'I don't assume men are out to attack' - three things.

1. it's largely said to signal to males that you don't see male violence as their problem, obviously, because that might make them feel bad or that they should take some responsibility. Frankly they need to face this. Its not the job of females to ego nurse and disguise the ugly bits for them because it's a bit threatening to think about and they might call you a man-hater/feminazi/other term of abuse.

2. It suggests that the desire of females for accessible, inclusive space that pays equal concern to their identity, feelings, needs, sense of self, comfort, dignity, all the things you're so concerned about for males, is something irrational and silly, and it's a bit shaming. We're talking about some females losing all access to any space so that males can choose from all the spaces for their better happiness, so framing that as females being a bit silly? Females really aren't a sub species you know. Prick them and they bleed. Exclude them, and they get really pissed off and talk on MN.

3. The whole point is, whether or not a male in a female space harasses, voyeurs, behaves beautifully, attacks or worse - is entirely in the gift of the male . The females only get to find out how generous the male is feeling on that day by whether or not they leave the encounter unharmed. Do you really think that's ok to dump on females as a sex class? What have they done to deserve so very little compared to what you feel males deserve?