Zara - male bodies in female changing room

Also no one is strolling in when anyone is undressed

You clearly haven't been in this changing room or read the article

Also no one is strolling in when anyone is undressed. They have cubicles which are monitored and assigned by the staff. Which you are well aware of but are choosing to ignore because it suits you

Two men strolled in and witnessed the female journalist in her underwear. What don't you understand about that?

In the same week wolf whistling is to be banned, this is happening in Zara. and what about young adolescents in there?

The changing room is set up with a communal area so that you can nip in and try on a top or trousers or whatever if the cubicles are full. this means being in your underwear in teh communal area. letting two 6 foot blokes walk in is wrong. It makes women uncomfortable. It's dangerous for young girls. It's unfair on low paid staff for Zara HQ to be so vague in their policies.

None of this would happen with males present.

incredibly insulting and not remotely what I said. Why can’t you make your point without insulting another woman?

I'm not a woman. I am confused by women who are happy to let men into their changing rooms. And I'm not happy that these actions put my daughter at risk. You might feel insulted. My strength of feeling goes far beyond feeling insulted.

[quote Cordyceps]@DoubleTweenQueen perhaps if that is your takeaway, you might be more comfortable engaging with someone else instead. There are plenty of people here who agree with you wholeheartedly and you can all have a great time agreeing with each other. Because that of course is exactly how good policy and a well-thought-out world view are created - by only engaging with people who agree with you to the tiniest detail of the teeniest thought.[/quote]
I would like to discuss the issue with someone who is also addressing the same issue, rather than deflection to something else, and then outright dismissal.

Do you think it was appropriate for the woman in the story to be without a private cubicle, in the women’s changing room, because two men were each taking up a private cubicle each, so necessitating her to change in the communal women’s area, then be slightly put out that said two blokes caught her out in her underwear? Do you think that’s acceptable or not?

Also no one is strolling in when anyone is undressed. They have cubicles which are monitored and assigned by the staff. Which you are well aware of but are choosing to ignore because it suits you.

So interesting. The whole 'just lie down females, it's over, you lost long ago' keeps being trotted out, but if it was true, who'd dedicate their Sunday so busily to trying to convince them?

Perhaps they haven't seen that the top comment under that article has a whopping 23,000 likes.

That's an awful lot of customers.

But I guess what I (a woman) "get out if it" doesn't count here because I don't agree with you. Funny, that.

So it's works for you because you have a male chaperone with you and it enhances your shopping experience.

What about the women and girls (like my daughter 😡) that don't and they are in their on their own, undressed, when the men stroll in. Including your male partner.

I hate to say this, but that sounds extremely selfish to me.

So interesting. The whole 'just lie down females, it's over, you lost long ago' keeps being trotted out, but if it was true, who'd dedicate their Sunday so busily to trying to convince them?

If it was true, female people just talking to each other about it wouldn't be threatening and wouldn't need someone rushing to convince them to shut up shut up shut up please shutup.

I must admit when I asked that question I was not expecting the answer to be well I can't tackle the sexism of too few female changing rooms, so I'm going to advocate to abandon them all together.

Reading with intrigue

two "masculine looking men" appeared behind her when she was in her bra in the female changing room of Zara.

Single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act 2010 already apply

[quote Cordyceps]@Datun well at Uniqlo last week, the line went pretty fast, no one bothered me, and I was able to queue with my male partner and get through the queue together instead of what usually happens when we have shopped together with single- sex dressing rooms, where he got done in about five minutes and then had to stand around and wait 30 minutes for me to get through the female queue. So I, a woman, prefer the mixed-gender system. It's faster and more convenient and eminently safe for everyone involved. But I guess what I (a woman) "get out if it" doesn't count here because I don't agree with you. Funny, that.[/quote]
That's got nothing to do with it. That's about provision.

And there's one of the near the bottom lines.

• There's no way to get the genie back in the bottle, you need to believe (please) that the days of single sex spaces are gone for females because things like male people just respecting female needs and voices is never going to happen

• yes they don't work for all females and the non-cool ones who are silly enough to have protected characteristics etc they can't get over or who want things like privacy and dignity will just get excluded and who cares about them? Inclusion doesn't include females, after all, does it?

@Datun well at Uniqlo last week, the line went pretty fast, no one bothered me, and I was able to queue with my male partner and get through the queue together instead of what usually happens when we have shopped together with single- sex dressing rooms, where he got done in about five minutes and then had to stand around and wait 30 minutes for me to get through the female queue. So I, a woman, prefer the mixed-gender system. It's faster and more convenient and eminently safe for everyone involved. But I guess what I (a woman) "get out if it" doesn't count here because I don't agree with you. Funny, that.

I'm genuinely asking, what outcome do you want? How do you see it being implemented? It seems like an impossible situation to me but maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

We go back to the good old days when women were allowed to tell men to fuck off out of their spaces

[quote Cordyceps]@Datun I don't know what you mean by this repeated statement "what's in it for [women]. Like, I get what you're saying in that you think most women would prefer single biological sex changing rooms (which I don't necessarily agree with - the women in the busy mixed-gender changing rooms at Uniqlo and at other places I've been don't seem bothered, but I didn't interview them about it or anything). That's fine, vote with your money and write to corporate leaders and let them know how you feel. If it's actually true and you're right that the majority of women want this, get them to join you and be the change you want to see in the world.

Or do you actually mean that this should be legislated, and that single-sex changing rooms should be required by law, and that the minimum-wage staff should challenge people who appear to be male in the women's and female in the men's? Should there be training on this? What if people refuse, or what if the staff get it wrong?

I'm genuinely asking, what outcome do you want? How do you see it being implemented? It seems like an impossible situation to me but maybe I'm missing something obvious here.[/quote]
No, I'm genuinely asking you what is benefit of mixed changing rooms to women?

What is it?

I don't think that, realistically, any woman is at real risk in the specific scenario of "man in the Zara changing rooms

You are wrong. Men with any shred of decency don't want to change in the women's changing rooms. It's embarrassing for men and they don't want women to feel uncomfortable or not safe. That leaves the other men. Who can be a risk. I don't want those men changing next to my daughter. And I find it mystifying that women are pushing for this to happen. Why? To be kind? It's not being kind. Why don't you want to defend your boundaries and those of other women? Why are you happy for men to be in there with you? You don't have to answer this. But you should ask yourself. You may have had a bad experience with women. Bringing men into this is not going to make things safer for you.

@FindTheTruth

cross post *@Datun*

What's remarkable to me is how people can't immediately even contemplate such a question, much less answer it. I can't wait to see what the actual answer is.

I suspect it's going to be something along the lines of why should there be anything in it for women 🤣🤣

In their own changing rooms, trying on their own clothes, and spending their own money in a shop that caters to them!!

@Datun I don't know what you mean by this repeated statement "what's in it for [women]. Like, I get what you're saying in that you think most women would prefer single biological sex changing rooms (which I don't necessarily agree with - the women in the busy mixed-gender changing rooms at Uniqlo and at other places I've been don't seem bothered, but I didn't interview them about it or anything). That's fine, vote with your money and write to corporate leaders and let them know how you feel. If it's actually true and you're right that the majority of women want this, get them to join you and be the change you want to see in the world.

Or do you actually mean that this should be legislated, and that single-sex changing rooms should be required by law, and that the minimum-wage staff should challenge people who appear to be male in the women's and female in the men's? Should there be training on this? What if people refuse, or what if the staff get it wrong?

I'm genuinely asking, what outcome do you want? How do you see it being implemented? It seems like an impossible situation to me but maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

Its discriminatory.

And I have to also point out that my periods are of epic proportions now - I’m like Lady McBeth no matter how careful i am. Yeah I’m thrilled to be scrubbing my bloody hands (occasionally soaking blood off clothes) in a mixed sexual bog...