Life expectancy of medically transitioned young people

They're really believe in throwing the endocrinologists under the bus. Should we be fine FOI requests from them? I assume they have been assured that all psychological matters have been dealt with and that they are involved only in the physical medical elements.

GIDS seem a bit reluctant to release information about the number of children referred for treatment with hormone blockers.

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/documents/1873/FOI_19-20328_GIDS_Hormone_Blockers_Prescribed_2018-19_and_19-20.pdf

The response says:

Whilst I confirm that the Trust holds information falling within this scope, the dates on which hormone treatment was prescribed and commenced are not held for all patients.

The Tavistock and Portman NHS FT does not prescribe puberty blockers or any other medication linked to the treatment of young people presenting to GIDS. This is the domain of endocrinologists who are employed by other NHS Trusts. There are a number of arrangements for prescription of the blockers which are most often administered locally, and we therefore may not have the date on which hormone treatment commenced for all patients

Thx notbadconsidering.

I've just had a look on gofundme - and searched on 'top surgery uk'. It doesn't seem to give a number, but brings up pages of 18 per page. It's a lot. I'll report back the actual number.

@oldwomanwhoruns

Can anyone help me with any figures of how many young people in the UK who are damaging their bodies in this way, ie surgery or hormones, whatever? Because I am going to have a chat with my MP, and some hard facts would help me to get my point across

www.bbc.com/news/health-49036145

states

Gids' data suggests that between 2012 and 2018, 267 people under the age of 15 started using the blockers.

We know that 98+% of children who start PBs go onto wrong sex hormones. If you add in children since 2018 and before the Bell ruling then it’s likely 300 children. But those who started in 2012 will only just be young adults, and no one is following them up properly. So you could say to your MP that there are at least 300 children who have been committed to a medical pathway which NICE this determined has very low evidence in its support. Yes

Not enough time has passed. But its not exactly rocket science to say its highly likely they have shortened life spans due to knowledge in areas using the drugs they are and the impact it has. The comorbity issue is also present and we do have data in that department.

Can anyone help me with any figures of how many young people in the UK who are damaging their bodies in this way, ie surgery or hormones, whatever? Because I am going to have a chat with my MP, and some hard facts would help me to get my point across

Very true @oldwomanwhoruns

I've been watching Exulansic video's too, seeing these young people proudly discussing their multiple surgeries, the post op complications, the infections, the pulmonary embolus, the supra-pubic catheters and leg bags.

I'm feeling really angry.

This last couple of weeks at work we have had several beautiful, previously fit and well, young (by my definition - 50's, 40's, 30's - too young to die) people through the department with devastating new cancer diagnosis. All with young children and so much to live for.
I've been fighting tears on a couple of occasions. I feel so sad for them and their families.

Life is precious, good health is the greatest blessing, to be treasured and enjoyed. It can all be lost in a flash. None of us knows what is just around the corner.

These teenagers should be making the most of their healthy bodies, having fun, pursuing education, sport, jobs. Instead they are chronic invalids, with a busy schedule of hospital appointments, hand physiotherapy appointments, catheter bag changes, infections, revision surgeries. Their health ruined for life. It's like some extreme competitive self harm club that they are encouraging each other to join. They will never enjoy good health again.
It is the medical scandal of our age.

I reckon it'll be another ten years yet, maybe twenty, before this generation of lost youth wakes up to what has been done to them.
If there is a collective cry will there be a mass class action? Who will they sue? Doctors? Insurance companies? Politicians?
They'll still never get their lives back.

When I first started finding out about all this in the run up to the GRA in 2018 I couldn't believe this was being done to young people.
I still find it hard to believe. It's scandalous.

Another thought - most of us on this board are supremely positioned to talk about the pain and possible complications of both major and minor surgery in the bottom area!!

Because - we are all women, and the majority of women have had/will have children. And the complications of childbirth are frequent, and messy. We could tell any of these confused children about urinary infections, incontinence, drug dependence for the pain, and then all the surgical complications.

We know.

But they go for advice to men online who would cry at a nosebleed.

It's so sad.

Except that they are dying AFTER the transition, not before. Which wasn't what they had been told, at all...

I've been watching the youtubes of TTExculansic, lots of horror stories there, and realistic commentating on the unrealistic expectations of these young people.
www.youtube.com/channel/UCuWbt6ZGY8wIJs_RlnuO0zA

It's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it. Claims that tran people die young and need to medically transition, so they have treatment and die young. And suddenly there is something to actually back up that stat.

This is such a great thread. Sad, but important.

Transition is, according to the evidence, far more likely to result in the early death of their child.

I know of a 22yo, was at school with dd, who is in a very bad way. FtM, in a wheelchair, heaven knows what else wrong, heart problems and less obvious things which I don't understand, stuff like imbalances in the endocrine system (hardly a surprise, surely) and so on. When younger, she was quite a nice girl, these days he is not so much, and rapdily becoming friendless which serious as he went nc with his family as soon as he could. It's incredibly sad.

PrincessNutella's post : 'Proper informed consent for Lupron therapy is impossible to obtain because the occurrence of ovarian dysfunction long after stopping Lupron remains hidden behind a court protective order'. Cited from a paper (Redwine et al)

There's a court protective order somewhere (US?) preventing us knowing about the effects of Lupron on ovarian function. WTF??? You can bet what's in there is not good.

I'm not trans, but I've had extensive surgery related to Crohn's disease and endometriosis. I would imagine "bottom surgery" puts the patient at risk of both urinary and fecal incontinence, fistulas, nerve damage and sexual dysfunction. Given my experience with surgeries in this area, I would beg a trans person to think very hard before they decide to make these kinds of changes.

Not specific to Life Expectancy but this Research Series is worth keeping an eye on for updates:

Amsterdam Cohort of Genderdysphoria (ACOG)

Goal: The ‘Amsterdam Cohort of Genderdysphoria’ (ACOG) aims to better understand the long-term effects and side effects of hormonal treatment and thereby to improve quality of care for individuals with gender dysphoria.

www.researchgate.net/project/Amsterdam-Cohort-of-Genderdysphoria-ACOG

There are two tabs on that page:

• Project Log

• References

There are 14 References to date. The first three listed:

Trends in suicide death risk in transgender people: results from the Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria study (1972‐2017)
www.researchgate.net/publication/339355801_Trends_in_suicide_death_risk_in_transgender_people_results_from_the_Amsterdam_Cohort_of_Gender_Dysphoria_study_1972-2017

Mortality trends over five decades in adult transgender people receiving hormone treatment: a report from the Amsterdam cohort of gender dysphoria
www.researchgate.net/publication/354420473_Mortality_trends_over_five_decades_in_adult_transgender_people_receiving_hormone_treatment_a_report_from_the_Amsterdam_cohort_of_gender_dysphoria

Incidence of testicular cancer in trans women using gender‐affirming hormonal treatment: a nationwide cohort study
www.researchgate.net/publication/353910998_Incidence_of_testicular_cancer_in_trans_women_using_gender-affirming_hormonal_treatment_a_nationwide_cohort_study

le.utah.gov/interim/2020/pdf/00002340.pdf

From a bill seeking to study further the dangers of Lupron: HB 449 and the
Dangers of LupronREP DA

"Statement from Dr. Redwine• Dr. Redwine is a (now retired) endocrinologist and OB-GYN who specialized in endometriosis and who practiced for over 30 years
• Excerpt from his statement:
“During my career, I had the opportunity to speak with and operate on over 600 patients who had been treated with Lupron for pain due to endometriosis. Clearly the medicine does nothing to the disease, but more worrisome are the long-term effects of Lupron on ovarian function that patients would mention to me. As a medical expert in a product liability lawsuit against Lupron (Klein v Abbott), I had the opportunity to review thousands of pages of in-house medical studies consisting of tabulations of raw data and their evaluation in reports which eventually became the basis for FDA approval of Lupron for endometriosis in 1990 and also the basis for medical journal article publications. One of the earliest in-house studies found that by one year after stopping Lupron, 62% of patients had not regained baseline estrogen production. This fact was not presented in the medical journal publication of the time, so practitioners are not aware of this evidence of long-term ovarian dysfunction. Indeed, the product label and a medical publication of the time imply that normal ovarian function is restored in most by 2 months after stopping Lupron. Proper informed consent for Lupron therapy is impossible to obtain because the occurrence of ovarian dysfunction long after stopping Lupron remains hidden behind a court protective order. Beyond the hidden data on ovarian function, I found in my review of the in-house studies that there were many examples of protocol violations and other means of making the results more favorable to Lupron than the data would allow. But deception is simply how drug companies operate. The future is like a black box. When any medicine is approved and prescribed, a great social experiment begins which will eventually define efficacy and safety in the light of day, not within the protective walls of a drug company. Lupron is a powerful drug with unanticipated long-term adverse consequences in a sizable fraction of patients. Its off-label use for gender dysphoria is controversial and seems questionable in my opinion.”

Lupron (Hormone blockers) causes osteoparosis, including pediatric osteoparosis.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26360682/
an 21.
An Examination of the Effects of Leuprolide Acetate Used in the Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty on Bone Mineral Density and 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D

UPDATE: Lupron Can Result in Serious Injury or Death
www.newlandlaw.com › lupron-can-result-in-ser...

what you don't know can harm you - Lupron Victims Hub
www.lupronvictimshub.com › lawsui

More complaints about Lupron side effects - KTNV
www.ktnv.com › news › investigations › more-w...

Georgia woman says controversial drug led to series of health ...
www.wsbtv.com › news › local › georgia-woma...

Women Fear Drug They Used To Halt Puberty Led To Health
khn.org › news › women-fear-drug-they-used-to...

Purgatory--That letter about the red blood cells in women who take testosterone and how it raises the risk of heart attacks is really sobering. I woke up thinking about it.

It's not the same of course, but those kids doped with testosterone and other steroids have experienced myriad health problems. That should be a warning, surely? Link.

wrt hormones - there is a lot of data from the east german women sports squad. and it's not good.

wrt to medication, the pharmaceutical companies are obliged to collect reports on side effects and data on off-label use (use of medication that's different to the authorised use). see also the yellow card scheme.
I suspect that many dr don't always report as obliged for many different reasons and patients might not always be aware that they can report themselves.

What we know:

The human body generally responds badly to hormone levels being way out of normal range, as is deliberately done in trans healthcare.

Surgeries are hugely problematic, more so if done on prepubertal tissue, with deaths occurring.

The large Dutch cohort, transitioned through the late 90s and early 2000s will only be at the very oldest in their 40s maybe?

I don’t know if the Dutch clinic have robust follow up of these children as adults. I do know other clinics have no idea about where their former patients are now.

It seems every month there is a new paper published: higher rates of breast cancer in males on oestrogen, increased risk of stroke and heart attack, increased risk of liver problems, ongoing mental health issues, and so on, and so on. They are usually reported on here with a thread.

It will take another 30 years at least before we see the full impacts of what has been done to children in terms of their long term health.

So in terms of life expectancy, my inference is that it we will discover it is reduced, and that it is iatrogenic i.e. caused by doctors and the apparent “healthcare” they provide. I’d like to hear any arguments from proponents of the medical affirmative pathway as to how it can not affect long term health and ultimately life expectancy.

Blocking puberty is a very bad idea and I’m sure will lead to all sorts of problems later.