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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans training at work

60 replies

Debroglie · 03/12/2021 16:18

The trans train has arrived (with stonewall help) at my workplace (a secondary school) and we are having training on using things like ‘assigned at birth’ and ‘cisgender’ can I refuse to participate on the basis that it is in opposition to my beliefs?
I know I probably can’t but my blood is boiling! Especially for all my lovely gay and lesbian students who will be vulnerable to this crazy brainwashing.
I don’t know what I’m asking but I feel so completely powerless. As a science teacher I have spent my career fighting the idea of ‘lady-brain’ only to find myself now compelled to preach the exact opposite message!

OP posts:
AdamRyan · 03/12/2021 18:58

Too much discrimination. Long day Grin

AdamRyan · 03/12/2021 18:57

Personally I would just state my position assertively as I don't believe there is any basis for discrimination
So something like "as a woman, I've experienced discrimination and negative perception because I could give birth. I find it difficult that my experiences are wrapped up with people who will never experience that discrimination. How do we ensure our children have the right language to talk about sex based discrimination as well as gender based discrimination?"

SoItWas · 03/12/2021 18:55

*must be

SoItWas · 03/12/2021 18:55

"I’m slightly scared to ask my biology colleagues because I really think they’ll be on board with the whole trans thing"

Do you think maybe playing dumb a bit, and questioning what the evidence that convinced them was, (because you think you must missing something), might make them back track and re-think?

ufucoffee · 03/12/2021 18:50

@Ellextra

One of my kids had a phse lesson recently...

He pulled the teacher up on presenting opinion as fact.

I've impressed upon him the need to be respectful and mindful especially of vulnerable people with mental health issues but I'm happy he's also taken on board my lessons in critical thinking

He didn't say people shouldn't have opinions, just that they shouldn't be presented as fact.

Good for them
Debroglie · 03/12/2021 18:29

Thanks. These ideas are useful.

OP posts:
FreeBritnee · 03/12/2021 18:02

Could you take advice from someone senior as to where this leaves you with certain science teachings? There must be a huge conflict between some of your lessons and stonewall’s dogma. I can’t imagine where that will leave you if some students ask some difficult questions in biology.

justaftb · 03/12/2021 18:00

I think it's perfectly reasonable to remind the trainer or whoever is responsible for this in school that they must also present the fact that some people do not believe in gender identity and therefore not everyone has a gender identity. Their tactic is to ignore that convenient fact and jump straight into 'Right, so your gender identity is 'cis' blah blah...'

This is important if they are teaching people that you must respect other people's gender identity. They should also respect your lack of one and lack of belief in one.

When they make sweeping statements like 'You are cis gender if you are the same gender as the gender assigned at birth', then ask that they not, according to their own advice, assume anyone's gender identity. Unless someone has declared they are 'cis', then it is not up to them to assign them that gender identity. They should say 'Some people identify as cis gender'. It's not up to them to call anyone else 'cis'.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 17:53

There was a thread somewhere in the last month about an MP, Miriam Cates, who is trying to stop misinformation and harmful content about trans gender ideology being spread in schools.

It is interesting you have so many pupils. That Safe Schools Alliance advice mentions
the effect of social contagion.

Can you guess the proportion? Are there more girls than boys?

Apparently there has been a 4000 % ( possibly increased recently to 5000%) increase in girls wanting to transition. No way would this be explained by nature suddenly producing this number of girls ‘born in the wrong bodies for their mind’.

StillWeRise · 03/12/2021 17:53

bonus points if you can corner the trainer into agreeing that yes, a gender non conforming person could actually be defined as trans

Summerhillsquare · 03/12/2021 17:40

I just ask awkward but literal questions. Eg so how does the assignment take place, is there a quota each day? Is it a midwife or doctor decision? What about the pregnancy scans? Etc etc

StillWeRise · 03/12/2021 17:34

excellent if taped !

I think what you need are a few pointed questions, along the lines of ...
so...let me get this straight, are you saying people can ACTUALLY change sex..? but how can that be? ....
or, one I asked myself,
I'm a bit puzzled really, why the 'T' belongs with LGB...ah, um, er, it seems to be SUCH a different issue, doesn't it, not to do with sexuality at all, really? Is there something I'm not getting here?

I'm sure people can think of others...

Debroglie · 03/12/2021 17:20

We’ve got loads of trans and non binary students. According to our 6th formers the biggest issue in school is teachers not using the correct pronouns or avoiding using pronouns / new names altogether.
The training is taped because COVID.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 17:14

Would you be able to tape the training sessions?

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 17:13

Do you know if there are any children at your school who say they are trans or non-binary?

Debroglie · 03/12/2021 17:11

I’m slightly scared to ask my biology colleagues because I really think they’ll be on board with the whole trans thing

OP posts:
Debroglie · 03/12/2021 17:10

I am physics but I do teach biology too. I am very clear in my lessons that there is no place for belief systems that are not evidence-based in science. I can control the message in my classroom and hide behind the science national curriculum but it’s the whole-school stuff that I’m finding difficult to live with

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BobbinThreadbare123 · 03/12/2021 17:04

@Debroglie I'm guessing you're a physics teacher from that username. What do your biology-teaching colleagues think about this? I always hated delivering any PSHE because I didn't think I was qualified to comment anyway!

Leafstamp · 03/12/2021 17:04

There's a section here on external agencies: www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum

And also this paragraph under Ensuring Content is Appropriate:

We are aware that topics involving gender and biological sex can be complex and sensitive matters to navigate. You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support.

Debroglie · 03/12/2021 17:02

Thanks. I need to have a think about what to do.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 16:59

Thank you LeafStamp crossed post

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 16:58

BBC Sounds - Nolan Investigates - Available Episodes

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09yjmph

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 16:56

@Debroglie safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/redflagsa4.pdf
Here it is. I am sure you will find this useful.

I am sure many parents would be horrified if they realised what is going on.

So sorry you are not very well.

Leafstamp · 03/12/2021 16:56

Et voila : safeschoolsallianceuk.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/redflagsa4.pdf

I think this is the one Scrolling means.

@Debroglie you cannot lose your job if you go about this based on law and fact. The Forstater case protects you.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 16:53

Debroglie, I have not rthft so someone else might have said this already but
there is another thread on this board “Anyone willing to share their experience of gender ideology in schools” where
Someone has recently posted a very useful link to Safe Schools Alliance’s leaflet about how schools could be misinterpreting and breaking the law. It goes through, point by point with evidence. I wonder if that might help, if you haven’t seen it already?

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