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Original poster

Difficult conversation re Kathleen Stock

34 replies

mynameisnotkate · 02/12/2021 18:17

I was having a conversation with a friend about how I'm a bit fed up with UCU, and one of the reasons I brought up was their total failure to support Kathleen Stock. I'm aware this friend feels very differently on gender topics to me, and we usually avoid talking about it. She immediately said that she and I feel very differently about that issue, implying she didn't think UCU had acted badly. I asked if she'd read her book and she said she had read parts of it (which I must admit, is more than I have ...). I said that I thought that whether or not you agreed with her position, everyone should have the right to feel safe at work and that the union should be supporting people who are under threat, and she said that she felt the way KS had acted was a big part of the problem and she didn't agree with a lot of what she had done.

I didn't know what she was talking about - I'm not aware of KS acting in ways that would increase the problems she was facing - but wasn't really sure how to address this and we agreed not to discuss this then and there. I'd like to talk it through with her though, and feel it would be helpful to be better informed - especially to get a view of the situation from 'the other side' - I've not read much about it that's not from a GC point of view - not because I think this will change my opinion but because I want to understand how this looks to someone who is very empathic and feminist but who sees gender issues completely differently to me.

I find it so difficult to discuss gender issues - it makes me so stressed and anxious! I'm not sure why - I'm usually very confident and don't mind if people disagree with me. Any thoughts about how to discuss this would be very welcome!

OP posts:
allmywhat · 02/12/2021 18:56

Your friend has probably received a very distorted account of the truth. TRAs have accused her of all sorts. I didn't pay attention to it, honestly, so I can't even remember what they were saying, but I think Grace Lavery was one of the people disseminating the TRA version of the story. So if you want to know what your friend thinks she's done, you could hold your nose and Google what Lavery has said about her.

Maybe one of the trolls will even make themselves useful for once and explain the TRA side, though I suspect it might be hard to do that on here because they'll get deleted for libel.

CharlieParley · 02/12/2021 18:50

I'm a bit puzzled as to what she is supposed to have done as well. She has behaved far too politely if you ask me, but there has been not even a hint of misconduct at work. (We would all know about it if there had been.) She used preferred pronouns and names without any issue, when defending herself she never actually called out any individuals, there were no reports of anything going on with her teaching.

It'll be her signing the Women's Human Rights Declaration and being a trustee of LGB Alliance. Which is slim pickings if you're justifying someone being harassed at work because of something they've done outside of work. Especially since the latter came long after the harassment started.

Shedmistress · 02/12/2021 18:36

@WomanStillNotAFeeling

If your friend doesn't agree with what KS has done then presumably she can say what it is KS is supposed to have done Confused
I'm sure KS will be keen to find out what it is she is supposed to have done, the OP's friend could clear up a lot of questions.

OP can you let your friend know I'm here on tenderhooks waiting for this revelation of what KS did. Thanks.

Original poster
mynameisnotkate · 02/12/2021 18:35

@Ionlydomassiveones

People are so blinkered about it, I think it’s a form of denial. Surely no one with half a brain thinks people can magically change sex? But the earnestness when they talk about it is utterly terrifying. Especially when you take a long hard look at society and see who the real winners and losers are. It ain’t biological women.
I find it utterly, utterly baffling - maybe that’s one of the reasons it’s hard to talk about it. It’s just so hard to understand where people are coming from.

Re how KS should have behaved - I’ll ask her what she means by this when we discuss it more, but I wondered if anyone knew what she might be referring to so that I could think about why she might take that position.

Thanks for the article link, that’s really helpful.

OP posts:
Datun · 02/12/2021 18:33

Until your friend can tell you what it is that Kathleen Stock has said or done that she disagrees with, you're just dealing with an emotional reaction.

Little wonder that it feels uncomfortable. You're completely in the dark.

I suspect that even if you get to the point where she can tell you what she thinks, it will still be an emotional reaction, not based at all on any evidence.

Which is why it's stressful and anxiety inducing.

It's not based on a to and fro of ideas rooted in evidence.

Ionlydomassiveones · 02/12/2021 18:28

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

WomanStillNotAFeeling · 02/12/2021 18:27

If your friend doesn't agree with what KS has done then presumably she can say what it is KS is supposed to have done Confused

prudencepuffin · 02/12/2021 18:25

Its probably worth giving this interview a listen to get the idea of what shes been saying and whats been happening to her at the university:
unherd.com/2021/10/the-hounding-of-kathleen-stock/

Shedmistress · 02/12/2021 18:25

she said that she felt the way KS had acted was a big part of the problem and she didn't agree with a lot of what she had done

What were the ways she was acting or what is it she did that your friend didn't agree with?