Omnisexual 11 year old

Hmmmm...my daughter is a lesbian, well she was, at the moment she is deciding whether in fact she is trans and pansexual.

She was bullied at school from year 7 for being homosexual, I don't know why, but she was. When I discussed it with her, I told her that IMHO it's really hard to understand your sexuality as a teen, due to hormones and pressure. I advised her against the need to definitively label herself and wait until she actually experienced sexual attraction to decide.

At age 13/14 she had her first girlfriend, it was very private as they were both new to it. It didn't end well, lots of shame unfortunately, once it was more widely known. Now both have stated they may be transmen.

Until a child, independently from adult input, chosen to act on a sexual attraction, or identifies it, I do not believe that it is healthy for them to declare anything publicly.

Once she had sought out a female partner, she has some knowledge now, but is her exploration done?

Boxes and labels should not be held up as progressive. Children need to be able to explore and choose privately, without pressure. There are no benefits to early declaration IMHO.

Good point

I think the whole sexuality is private was a misspeaking of sexuality is personal. The two are very close synonyms but not quite the same. Private meaning keep it to yourself, personal meaning it’s nobody’s business but your own. I think when you are using a single usage of a single word to support your argument, you do need to give that single word a little wiggle room.

And given my early posts were to reassure OP that her son having his friend say that was extremely unlikely to actually mean that his friend had the understanding knowledge etc of a young adult or adult. And would be at risk of sexual coercion because he said this.

I wanted to reassure.

Yes and people disagreed with you. It's allowed. You can still think it's harmless while other posters worry that it's not.

The point is many people don't particularly need or want to see OTT displays and we need to be careful not to enter ridiculous territory of excusing behaviour that's not appropriate for the time.or place or age because it's homphobic when in fact it wouldn't be appropriate fir anyone. The idea certain groups of people need to he able to act in such ways unchallenged is actually the homophobia.

Like dressing in rubber or pvc and knocking one out whilst filming yourself in the staff toilets at a children's charity. Everyone who thought that was disgusting was called homophobic. It's a nonsense.

And given my early posts were to reassure OP that her son having his friend say that was extremely unlikely to actually mean that his friend had the understanding knowledge etc of a young adult or adult. And would be at risk of sexual coercion because he said this.

I wanted to reassure. I have given examples of the situation with this with my dd1 late primary and at secondary now.

I hoped to make OP and others who felt the same a bit less worried because it's a widespread thing and for most children it doesn't mean anything.

When something worries me esp about my kids or their closer friends reassurance with a sound basis v is welcome. The reaction has thrown me a bit. All the stuff about children, burgeoning sexuality and naivety/ innocence,. Things from the past that were being ignored totally, rewritten, when to say oh yes forgot that would be very reassuring.

All that stuff in the middle about sleepovers and private schools. I tried to help the poster about the bullying. I can't remember anyone else about that. Why no support? It sounded awful.

Anyway. Interesting for me tbh.

CheeseMmmm
What?
The lesbians and bisexual women who are telling you that you're talking out your arse are screenshot fodder and likely to be called right wing homophobic fascists?

No.

George Michael sang some raunchy lyrics but primary school aged kids are being shown violent porn on their schoolmates' phones. It's not the same.

Me knowing I liked girls aged eleven is not the same as me having a fully formed concept of what kind of sex I wanted to have and with whom and under what circumstances, nor is it the same as me feeling pressured to announce it to the world like "here I am, as a female child and therefore commodity, thus is exactly what flavour of sex object I am and here is some insight into my desires".

I don't think we should normalise coming out as children. I did, it was grim. But I'm very butch and very obvious. Would life have been easier if I'd claimed to be asexual and then come out as a lesbian in adulthood? Definitely. But even old school identities like lesbian or bisexual are seen as something that must be proclaimed loudly all over social media. Children are told that they absolutely must come out, they must share this information, and that they're shamed or repressed or that they're damaging things for others if they don't.

I don't even think adults should come out, or be outed, if they don't want to. With exceptions for hypocritical homophobes in positions of power who (for example) pass laws against homosexuals despite being gay themselves - but that's a tiny fraction of people.

Does sexuality have to be private? No, but it should be an option!

Some of the points made are broad brush. The points I posted a little upthread were about children full stop and sexuality full stop.

Focusing on the current identity situation is one thing. Posting sexuality should be kept private full stop is another. And it is just a fact that for people out and about with a same sex partner, it is still in most areas likely to attract some reaction from double takes, states, to potentially more unpleasant reactions. While male female couples don't even think about it.

To use the same things - sexuality should be kept private, you can't know at 11. These are standard views expressed by those who have conceded that gay is a thing but want it to be hidden.

Plenty read these boards and screenshots are taken we all know this.

A post saying sexuality should be private full stop. Given that's not what people mean, then why post it without specifying? To post things that WILL come across s certain way to all those who lurk and grab everything they can to say look they're right wing homophobic fascists etc etc is just not necessary.

I have said this all through the thread- don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And been taken as I don't know what.

Some of the points when posted generally are 100% things that have been raised a lot for years it's not niche or something. The insistence that saying specific rather than across the board is definitely zero problem full stop I just don't get it.

Loads of other things as well seem very worst possible care scenario and ignoring so much about the past decades, the ongoing worsening coercion expectations by boys towards girls. Which is a massive issue. No acknowledgement I don't thing of general sexual context for children as if one and one thing only is s problem. And I wouldn't have raised this if it wasn't for the amount of total insistence that before this children were innocent and no cultural exposure to sexuality, sex. My points that not true as a generalisation also. Essentially told not to say. Why not? If comments are just not a true picture of how it was before then that's relevant.

The point is many people don't particularly need or want to see OTT displays and we need to be careful not to enter ridiculous territory of excusing behaviour that's not appropriate for the time.or place or age because it's homphobic when in fact it wouldn't be appropriate fir anyone. The idea certain groups of people need to he able to act in such ways unchallenged is actually the homophobia.

Yes some kids at 11 may know. But many will not. God I was well into late teens befire I had had interest in anyone. Its actually quite normal not to give a crap. Most 11 year olds used to be down the park or out on their bikes. Not pairing off and labelling themselves. This only really seems to be a thing now they all have phones . Gone is just being friends amd hanging out they are now sending eachother pictures and messaging 24/7.

In trying to make things not be a big deal for kids we have in fact turned it into something huge because now there's apparently a right and a wrong way to be gay straight or bi and it's all about proving you are.

Saying that it's time to calm down a bit and have kids get back.to playing is not homphobic fgs wht are adults so bloody invested in the sexuality of children . Because all these labels didn't come from the kids hese are thought up by adults . The influences beyond, 2 consenting adults can marry the.person they love are coming from.adults. and it's it's excused because apparently being expected to have age appropriate conversations and act in appropriate ways in public and to recognise what is appropriate I'm pu kic is being deemed as phobic. That doesn't benefit children.

Well said Wanderingowl
As a lesbian teacher and parent having homophobia thrown at me for being concerned about safeguarding children is infuriating. As you commented in your excellent post upthread:
And this new 'queer' movement is the most misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life. It's scary and it's pushing past women's boundaries every which way it can. And it's making women and girls into bad guys for not being willing to be open and inclusive in their sexuality. It's not telling them it's ok to be who they are and allowing them space to internally explore their attractions and learning about their boundaries with partners. It's actively telling young girls that they need to be willing to include bodies their actual sexuality precludes them from being with because otherwise they are reducing people to their genitals and that is wrong

There's a reason dangerous adults specifically target young children, aiming to remove their boundaries....

Actually I need to correct that, numerous same sex people are making the points that you are deliberately twisting to mean something bad when it's been repeatedly explained to you that you are misunderstanding.

Or at least continually pretending to misunderstand.

Tbh, I hate using my attraction to other women as some sort of "gotcha" because a person doesn't need to experience same sex attraction in order to recognise a possible child protection issue. But it's frankly mind boggling that you are berating the people you are claiming a moral high ground in defense of. So I don't take your posts in good faith anymore. You are just trying to stir.

Woah!!! Crikey.

Holding hands with kids seemingly included!

There are loads of pavement space threads that's a bit off topic here and those conversations are fight club max do we need another!!

Im straight. I hate PDAs regardless of the combination of sexes.

I hate holding hands myself because being mauled about in public makes me feel like he may as well just piss up my leg.

Couples that hold hands down the street piss me off. They take up the whole of the pavement and force me to walk on the road. Even my kids know to go single file when required.

Makes no difference to me what way round it all is

I did not say anyone was homophobic.

I said SOME of the points made ARE homophobic.

Eg

11yo is too young to know sexuality
Sexuality should be kept private

These exact things about sexuality full stop have been said to/ shout same sex attraction for yonks.

These are things i have seen raised as issues for decades.

That is simply a FACT. This thread is an eye opener for sure.

This thread was a bit of a roller coaster for me to read, but an interesting read nonetheless. Piqued my interest at the mention of asexuality as I'm Ace myself.
I have nothing to contribute to the conversation that won't get me yelled at by everyone else here, but it was almost fun to read through, I guess.

One of the things that strikes me about asexuality is that it's quite common for women in particular to take time, sometimes a lot of time, to figure out how to make sex work for them on a day to day basis. They may still be interested in it, though, and how do they define that? As a generalized attraction, as some kind of romantic thing, as something they want to do because they like their partner? Maintenance sex? Some people have sex mainly because they want kids.

The fact is that none of these categories and definitions, even when you break them down into these tiny parts, really perfectly describes each experience or the basis on which they make decisions perfectly. All the old and new terms around sexuality don't always encompass every person perfectly throughout their whole lives. Our sexuality especially changes and developed throughout the teen years and early 20s. In some cases it can even seem to change radically. Were these latent feelings, or real change, or what? well, honestly, probably any and all, and really, who cares?

But it's not helpful and just really inaccurate to tell children that they will have a clear view of what they are and that this will define them, and so on. That's not how human beings work. Most people at 11 will have some significant change to their sexual attractions over the next ten to 15 years.

I jusy think it's important to leave a way back.

Not cos every gay child will change their mind but because this current state of love bombing is manipulative. How do you get away from lables which brought so many friends with it.

And ultimately the kids end up just being used any way. To elevate the social standing of others. It becomes all about the allies virtue signalling. The kids in the middle are just forgotten.

Encouraging the sexuality to be the only interesting thing about you isn't healthy. Nor is creating and enabling the sense if victimhood just so the straight allies can get their " credit"

Except asexual is a realky difficult sexuality to navigate where ot would be impossible to really elaborate on it without the take away being that even of you don't feel attracted to someone feel any form of sexual attraction you can still have sex with them.
Yeah I've seen this too, the expectation that asexuals have "maintenance sex" because they like their partner/friend/whoever but that they don't actually fancy them. It's grim.

It's still some form of protection though, as it is seen as a "valid" sexuality and does offer some form of opt-out for many.

I mean, why make yourself vulnerable either psychologically or physically with someone who doesn't even pretend to care about you? I'm glad kids are rejecting all that. Adults are seeing it as hollow and unsatisfying too, but we are equally led by the fact casual sex is seen as liberating, cool and sexy so many adults go through all this and then realise afterwards it was a bit shit. Especially women, but I've spoken with men who regret some of the sex they've had with women they didn't particularly like, as with men there's the expectation to be constantly up for it with anyone.
It's a vicious circle really, people don't like to be lonely and horny, so they have bad sex with people they don't like, then feel more lonely afterwards. If young people are beginning to see through this then happy days.

Also I don't agree that this is just a teenage trend. These children have all been exposed to way more than song lyrics. Average age of exposure to what used to be illegal porn is nine years old for boys. That's not pearl-clutching, it's just a sad fact.

Good post Wanderingowl
I'm also bi and the suggestion that we are homophobic if we find problems with prepubescent children being labelled as omnisexual is just offensive. Children talking about, and acting out adult sexual things too early is also a known warning sign of them being groomed and sexually abused.
FlyingOink Asexuality and demisexuality are definitely used as shields and that is completely understandable in this porn and hookup culture.

I've seen evidence that asexual identities are being used as a shield by children against the oversexualisation of everything. I don't blame them at all! If the choices are fuck everyone all the time or opt out, I'd opt out too!

Except asexual is a realky difficult sexuality to navigate where ot would be impossible to really elaborate on it without the take away being that even of you don't feel attracted to someone feel any form of sexual attraction you can still have sex with them.

We heed to stop turning a normal.state of affairs , being uninterested in anything or any one or bow you feel about 99.9 percent of the population 99.9 percent of the time as a sexuality in itself that needs elaborating on.

Leave that to adults to decide. There's too much of a chance to teach kids it's normal to have sex without being attracted to anyone

I think children are having sex later these days. I'll check. I think this is evidence of that too, strangely enough.
If sex is sold as either a performance sport (for boys) or and endurance test (for girls) and relationships are seen as passé (it's all about hookups and FWB) then it becomes much less appealing to children and young adults with healthy or healthy-ish self esteem.

Ideally a person would begin to explore sex within the context of a relationship, even a teenage romance allows for some personal development. Fucking seen as something one uninvolved individual does to another uninvolved individual makes the whole thing seem a bit pointless when masturbation is a safer and less soul-destroying option.

And this new 'queer' movement is the most misogynistic shit I've ever seen in my life. It's scary and it's pushing past women's boundaries every which way it can. And it's making women and girls into bad guys for not being willing to be open and inclusive in their sexuality. It's not telling them it's ok to be who they are and allowing them space to internally explore their attractions and learning about their boundaries with partners. It's actively telling young girls that they need to be willing to include bodies their actual sexuality precludes them from being with because otherwise they are reducing people to their genitals and that is wrong. Large numbers of 11 year olds declaring that they are pansexual isn't necessarily a good thing or even a harmless thing. It's very likely a sign of 11 year olds being groomed to ignore their instinctive boundaries.
I like all of this post but particularly this part. It makes me wonder, how many boys are claiming to be omnisexual or pansexual? If there is no pressure to be accepting (in theory or in practice) of anyone on earth as a potential sexual partner, then surely we'd see a large number of boys claiming this sexuality too?

DS (13) recently came out to us as assexual- but he thinks he is probably gay.
I've seen evidence that asexual identities are being used as a shield by children against the oversexualisation of everything. I don't blame them at all! If the choices are fuck everyone all the time or opt out, I'd opt out too!