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Original poster

Penn’s Lia Thomas breaks 200/500 Free records in meet with Princeton, Cornell

447 replies

Helleofabore · 30/11/2021 07:51

USA women’s freestyle swimming records were broken this weekend!!!

To all those who keep using the ‘scale’ argument to justify inclusion of males in female sport, tell us again how it takes more than one male competing in female sport to significantly and negatively impact that sport?

I am very happy to hear your well thought out and evidenced reasoning.

swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-breaks-200-500-free-records-in-meet-with-princeton-cornell/

Penn’s Lia Thomas blasted the number one 200 free time and the second-fastest 500 free time in the nation on Saturday, breaking Penn program records in both events. She swept the 100-200-500 free individual events and contributed to the first-place 400 free relay in a tri-meet against Princeton and Cornell in her home pool.

Sounds wonderful until you realise that for their first three years competing in the competition, they competed as a male.

twitter.com/coachblade/status/1465517693386121217?s=21

Coach Linda Blade’s tweet says :

Well of course women’s records are being smashed!

Lia competed as male for first three years in #NCAA.

This is not right!

We need to return to #SexBasedSports!

#SexNotGender to preserve fairness for female athletes.

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Justme56 · 18/12/2021 12:12

There was a comment on one of the articles I read along the lines of ‘as soon as they have to admit Lia is a man in the pool, then they will have admit they are a man outside of it too’. The whole TWAW falls apart.

NeedToKnow101 · 18/12/2021 12:05

@sashh

Did anyone see the film on twitter?

Thomas finishes first and just waits. There is zero noise from the audience/crowd, this lasts for 38 seconds until Anna Kalandadze touches the wall and then there is applause.

Good!
Charley50 · 18/12/2021 12:04

The whole thing makes me feel sick. It's so blatantly wrong. Everyone knows it's wrong, so why the fuck are sporting bodies allowing it.

TurquoiseBaubles · 18/12/2021 11:21

There can never be a fair way of having "a new policy on transgender women competing in female events".

The only fair way is that male people who are transgender (or non-binary or whatever) compete in male events only. Full stop.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/12/2021 10:45

Yes, it feels like forever. A couple of times it looks like someone is about to come in second but they turn out to be people who are over a lap behind.

DaggerIsle · 18/12/2021 10:30

38 seconds????

sashh · 18/12/2021 09:39

Did anyone see the film on twitter?

Thomas finishes first and just waits. There is zero noise from the audience/crowd, this lasts for 38 seconds until Anna Kalandadze touches the wall and then there is applause.

NotBadConsidering · 18/12/2021 09:34

World Rugby released their superbly constructed recommendations after a open and scientific process, only for individual unions to reject them. So your pessimism is well founded.

Original poster
Helleofabore · 18/12/2021 09:29

That is interesting thanks Betty.

It is sad that I am pessimistic about this. Yes World Rugby did a great job. But they also have the contact issue.

I feel swimming will be like cycling and will go for inclusion. What those federations then don’t look at is the extra burden that these females put on their bodies to then push to ever more extreme performance. It is all about how to make these males feel better though.

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CatsOperatingInGangs · 18/12/2021 09:00

Good news. There is a proven format to look at this issue as modelled by World Rugby. I hope FINA keep the process open and transparent (unlike the IOC)

BettyFilous · 18/12/2021 07:46

Swimming’s international federation Fina is to appoint a panel of experts to come up with a new policy on transgender women competing in female events after being put on the spot by the emergence of the American college swimmer Lia Thomas.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lia-thomas-moves-transgender-rules-to-top-of-swimmings-agenda-wd3mvgm0l

VestofAbsurdity · 16/12/2021 19:41

Mental health services required to get them to accept they will never win again and their sport has been trashed by an out and out cheat.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 16/12/2021 18:37

Mara Yamauchi
@mara_yamauchi
👇Female swimmers told to access mental health services to ‘navigate’ Lia’s success.

Penn says it is committed to being a ‘welcoming & inclusive environment’ for all students.

Except the female swimmers, that is.

You really can’t make this stuff up.
🤬🤷‍♀️

PermanentTemporary · 16/12/2021 16:26

There is absolutely no history or resonance about an entire class of women disadvantaged by biology being told they
have mental health problems, of course.

But I know that Lia would tell me they'd also been disadvantaged by their biology and I'd be discriminating against them by suggesting psychological support to accept their male body was needed.

I found Lia's quote about still being able to compete despite being trans really quite nasty.

Original poster
Helleofabore · 16/12/2021 16:17

And sorry, Helleofabore, my I asked a question, but wasn’t expecting an answer it wasn’t quite rhetorical, but more a passing thought. I could, of course, look it up myself if I was interested enough to do so. Just 67% seemed low.

no. I agree, it does seem low. I did raise it as an issue myself and said I would try to find out. But the website for binary org hasn't got further details. I also know that many of my friends and family in Australia have NO idea about this so.... it could be lack of information or a poorly posed question.

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/12/2021 15:02

Maybe the entire women’s swim team and all their supporters should present themselves at the university mental health services at the same time. And invite the media along…

AnyOldPrion · 16/12/2021 14:46

@Ekofisk

Interesting that the Penn U response was for the affected women to contact the LGBT and/or mental health support services.
Yes. I read that and thought… either one person on the team needs mental health services, or almost everybody on the team needs them. Which is more likely?

And sorry, Helleofabore, my I asked a question, but wasn’t expecting an answer it wasn’t quite rhetorical, but more a passing thought. I could, of course, look it up myself if I was interested enough to do so. Just 67% seemed low.

CatsOperatingInGangs · 16/12/2021 14:26

Bless Ross Tucker. Like the rest of us, he really wishes he didn’t have to keep talking about these issues but then something else happens and he does another podcast. Here’s his take on Lia.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-real-science-of-sport-podcast/id1461719225?i=1000545175817

Quadzilla · 16/12/2021 10:19

I wonder how much of University sport in being impacted by gender ideology? As universities are hotbeds for GI, logically we should be seeing more Lia's coming through the system.

lanadelgrey · 16/12/2021 08:51

The Phelps fallacy is also used by Helen Joyce, so it has had wide currency in discussing this. Her chapter is a very good summing up of the issues at that point so I don’t think it’s necessarily a gotcha for Sean Ingle rather him presumably using recent writing on the subject

Ekofisk · 16/12/2021 08:49

Interesting that the Penn U response was for the affected women to contact the LGBT and/or mental health support services.

Original poster
Helleofabore · 16/12/2021 08:21

@BigGreenOlives

I’ve just seen in the Daily Mail that parents from Penn have written complaining. Distressed parents.
Thank you for that link.

The Mail continues to get yds and metres mixed up.

But apart from that, a good article. And it looks like the college believes this is ‘sore losers’ from the tone of that reply (I checked the photo of the communication).

Helping to navigate the success of their teammate!!! Nice one. Nice way to deflect from reality.

Honestly though, is this not the way many complaints from women about many things in the past have been dealt with? I think misogyny is still at large at that university.

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NotBadConsidering · 16/12/2021 08:16

I posted on the first page of this thread about Phelps explaining that fallacy. He is only 1.4% better than others in one race. Others are faster than him now.

Original poster
Helleofabore · 16/12/2021 08:08

67% of Australians (sample of 1500) agreed that female sports should be single sex only

So low? Why would anyone think anything else. How many were “don’t know”?

I haven’t had time to look at the survey results yet. I am sorry. I suspect from the article it could be the wording. It maybe worded in a way that is not clear that it refers to males in female only events. If it is not made clear, the respondents may be thinking of mixed sport events. If you see what I mean.

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