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Original poster

Critic my Letter to DD school regards LGBT club

190 replies

Sickoffamilydrama · 28/11/2021 23:50

I've just found out that our 12 year old autistic DD has been attending a lunch time LGBT club and now tells me she is bisexual, (apparently she needs choose what she is) & suddenly obsessively drawing flags on everything including herself.

She has been exhibiting worsening ticks like pulling her hair really tight and lip licking until above her mouth is sore & finger sucking.

She suddenly has a friend who identifies as a boy as well (I don't care if our daughter is straight, gay or whatever) but I'm worried what has been discussed, she's 12 hasn't gone through puberty yet and shows limited comprehension regarding relationships, she doesn't need to worry about this, or be considering any kind of sexual relationship.

This has left her confused and clearly anxious, I'm beyond livid to see her distress especially as the school are not doing much about her being massively behind and clearly academically struggling.

So help me by looking at the draft wording for a letter to the head of year and the safe guarding lead.

Dear
I writing to you to raise my concerns regarding the school's lunch time LGBT club, which my daughter informs me is open to children in all year groups. Whilst it is admirable the school wish to support pupils, it is inappropriate that sexuality is discussed in a mixed age group.

My daughter who is autistic and vulnerable has recently been attending with her friend, this has left her confused and anxious with her exhibiting increased ticks, some of which are boarding on harmfull.
She tells me that she now needs to choose what sexuality she is and has become anxious she doesn't have a boyfriend or particularly have any sexual feelings towards boys, this has led her to become very distressed culminating in her deciding she must be bisexual. Even though she feels no attraction to girls. She has then obsessively been drawing flags on herself and with her notebooks.

Prior to attending the LGBT club she had never exhibited any of this anxiety around her sexuality, rightly so as she is 12 years old and still in the very early stages of puberty, therefore she should not be considering sex.

I am unclear what is discussed at this club but the mixed age group is clearly a safeguarding issue a 16/17/18 year old should never be talking to a 12 year old about sex or sexuality these age groups have quite different needs and comprehension. This massive difference between young and older teens is recognised in PHSE guidance hence why children are given age appropriate information. They also appears to be no pastoral or any other kind of support attached to this club which is present when PHSE is taught as part of the curriculum, neither was I aware of this club or my daughter attending it until she suddenly became distressed.

There also appears to have been no consideration for children like my daughter who have a disability that disadvantages her compared to her peers.The difficulties in understanding intentions, missing social subtleties, limited peer interactions and often lower emotional age, means that children with autism require more support or they risk misunderstand important information regarding sex and relationships.

I await your response on this matter.

Not sure if I should put less about the distress and confusion she's been exhibiting. Once this letter had gone I'll be raising the stonewall & mermaids links they have on their LGBT web page using safe school alliance templates/advice.

OP posts:
Lovelyricepudding · 04/12/2021 00:11

time autism is a neurodevelopmental condition

OP I think I would keep your discussion about inclass/academic support separate from the discussion of this club as either could obscure the other. May be just say in your response 'I will write a separate email to concerning academic supports'. But I agree a learning passport means nothing especially if she is a quiet compliant child - they probably won't bother looking at it.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 23:38

Crossed over with you timeisnotaline you get a virtual drink to Gin in fact rounds on me everyone.

I hadn't actually thought about saying about the extra support and having to fight for it. The leaning passport I've seen is a bit rubbish and had incorrect info from primary school. Also you can't tell me that every teacher memorises every child with a learning passport. I used to be a nurse and it's hard to remember 15 patients names and conditions a teacher will have 100s to recall.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 23:31

MrsOvertonsWindow I could kiss you for writing that all out, instead I'll send buy you a virtual drink Gin a whole bottle.

Thank you for everyone's response again I'll be stealing bits from all of you.
Funny as I was just thinking fuck I don't have the capacity for this at the moment and then you all come along and trigger my thought process. I'll be glad when this year is over we've had Covid, my work has been really stressful and if anyone has read my previous post they'll know I have to deal with a misogynistic culture, I've been fighting the LA to get DD an EHCP assessment and then the icing on the cake was this. Okay rant over but thank you all of you on this thread for helping me.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 03/12/2021 23:28

Here’s my drafting for some key areas of the response:
Comment on the teacher and content bit: Teacher moderated discussions including sexuality and gender identity are sex education. And need to meet the carefully defined national standards on this content. Can you please evidence the discussion content against sex ed standards so I know safeguarding standards are being maintained, especially given at least one of these students is vulnerable with other neurological conditions . I would question whether this is a good use of your teacher resources, which as you say are very limited. It would be beneficial to have other options for the students who don’t fit into the usual major activities than discussing their sexuality at the age of 12 & 13 (not to mention the inclusion of 16 year olds - I am not sure there is any scope for that wt all within the sex Ed guidelines, teacher moderated or not)

currently is not requiring extra support as she is settled and supported in class. She has a learning passport which provides strategies to staff to support her.. Response: This is frustrating to read, as xs parent I know all about this extra support as I’ve fought for every step of it, and we only saw any of it after her ehcp arrived. It is understandable I would take from this experience that my daughter will only be provided with further needed support when we, her parents, have campaigned for it and evidenced the need. It is hard not to feel offended by this statement as the effort, late nights and yes tears we put into getting this support is all very fresh in our minds, and this letter dismisses all that and sounds like staff turned up at the school one day and said ‘we’ve thought of all this support for x!’ Please don’t erase our hard work like that. Additionally as you know our daughter continues to see medical specialists, and we have just received the latest report which will be bringing to discuss with you. It is quite clear that further support is needed, but it is very positive that you are prepared to work with us for this.

Your daughter is lucky to have you.

Lovelyricepudding · 03/12/2021 22:43

Given the topic discussed, I presume a child who is suffering sex abuse or is in an abusive relationship may raise this. How would a 15 year old recognise this or know how to respond? How is that 15 year old and any other child present supported after being exposed to this?

Also the letter says students are never asked directly about their own identity. What on earth do they think the students talk about in their 'socialising' time? I imagine this is likely to be the very first question they are asked.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/12/2021 22:36

While I'm aghast at what the school has stupidly admitted, I know that this situation is being replicated in numerous schools.
Adults are making themselves professionally vulnerable in running groups for children about sex and sexuality. And schools are leaving young children open to grooming and abuse via school sanctioned groups. Just as with adults, school populations contain some children who seek to abuse others and countless adolescents who simply make mistakes / misjudge sexual situations / relationships because of their immaturity.
It's unthinkable that schools are walking into this with no thought, management or supervision.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 03/12/2021 22:29

The school have (very foolishly in my opinion) admitted to extreme professional dangerousness.
The letter states that the groups sometimes includes discussion of sexuality and gender identity Also that Year 11 students (15 / 16 year olds) do, on occasion, come and support. The teacher claims on one hand that that sessions are supervised and any input has been preplanned ….. While also claiming that the sessions are not ‘taught’, and any questions are driven by students and responded to in a professional way This is a complete contradiction.

As someone with considerable safeguarding and teaching SRE experience, you do not allow unstructured discussions about sex and sexuality with groups of children in an unsupervised way. And never with 15 / 16 year olds leading / answering questions.

What are they thinking?

Questions (off the top of my head) would include:

  1. What are the aims of the groups?
  2. What criteria is used to select children for these groups? How is attendance at the group monitored? If children are involved with other professionals (Safeguarding investigations, Social care, Ed psych) what information is shared with them?
  3. What training has the teacher received in order to run groups for such young children about their sexuality?
  4. What professional supervision does the school offer the teacher in their role of running groups for children about sex and sexuality?
5 How is parental consent sought ? Are all parents aware that Mr * and random 15 / 16 year olds are discussing sexuality and gender identity with children as young as 11 in unstructured groups that are student led? (according to their letter).
  1. How does the school ensure that older students have the appropriate safeguarding, child psychology, child development and wisdom that is required of professionals discussing sex and sexuality with children as young as 11.
  2. What records are kept of these sessions?
  3. What formal safeguarding measures have been put in place to ensure that all discussions are age appropriate (especially if they are student led) and that safeguarding is a priority for children below the age of consent?
  4. How are the outcomes of the groups assessed and monitored - on an individual and group basis?
  1. What oversight does Senior Management have for these groups? Are similar groups run for children from other protected characteristics?
Shedmistress · 03/12/2021 22:21

How is it a safe space when it is triggering kids to self harm? How have they not thought 'oh fucccccck, better suspend this until we do some more digging'??????

I'd ask to see the risk assessment on the topics being run in this club and how they are mitigating against kids with the potential for self harm and with vulnerabilities. They won't have done one of course.

Lovelyricepudding · 03/12/2021 22:18

all answers to questions are moderated by Mr ...l, who runs the group. While this sometimes includes discussion of sexuality and gender identity, students are never asked directly about their own identity and are encouraged to take time when choosing language about themselves. These sessions do not involve sex education

So they are discussing sexuality, gender identity, language they can use to describe themselves, and this is apparently moderated by a teacher. Surely this is sex education? The fact it is outwith PHSE lessons, does not follow an agreed curriculum, is taught by a teacher who has declared an interest, and it is admitted that there is an element of cross-year group involvement should be considered big red flags.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 22:15

I was wondering about the school if this is the only sort of club they have.

If only there were something better for her where a group of friends were doing something interesting while chatting.

It just doesn’t sound a very mentally healthy club to be having. Though perhaps is ignorance on my part it seems like pandering to angst instead of helping children out of it.

It is so good though you think your DD seems to feel better having spoken to you about it; and good too that you have found a hairstyle that’s working for her. Thank goodness she has you.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 21:23

Yes I thought that too how can this person be in supervising all those groups at once? Unless they are saying it's on different days.

It's not a bad school but like many is rubbish with SEN support if like DD they aren't disruptive.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 21:18

“with the first 15 to 20 minutes given over to socialising with friends while having lunch“

The friends could be saying anything. Are they meaning that all three year groups are supervised? It seems difficult to believe.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/12/2021 21:14

One good thing seems to be that they have separate year groups. It is hard to trust what Mr X would be saying though.

It is extraordinary that as a ‘club’ this takes precedence over normal clubs! Out of all the interesting things they could be doing.

Is it actually a good school in other ways?

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 20:52

Yes TurquoiseBaubles although I might ask my questions in writing as I've already seen they have stonewall and mermaids in the places to seek support that they put up for pride in June 🤦‍♀️

I like how the reply is she is supported in class, ummm she has no support it's only since we managed to get the local authority to agree to an EHCP that they have started doing anything.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 20:47

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

I think it is well worded and measured, *@Sickoffamilydrama*.

The only thing I’d say is that it isn’t “boarding on harmful” it’s bordering on harmful.

Don't worry that was my angry first go it's since been tweaked and sent.
OP posts:
SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/12/2021 20:22

I think it is well worded and measured, @Sickoffamilydrama.

The only thing I’d say is that it isn’t “boarding on harmful” it’s bordering on harmful.

TurquoiseBaubles · 03/12/2021 20:09

You need to make an appointment with Mr X and ask him all the questions we your daughter can come up with.

So: What is the definition of homosexual? Can people change sex? What happens if a child comes in with a binder on? What groups are they sent to for support? How is it managed if a child wants to use a different name and pronoun?

Find out how much is neutral supervision and how much is gender woo.

If it turns out that Mr X genuinely supports LGB people, then (while it might be a bit much for your dd) it's probably best left. If (as is likely) it's a support group for children to discover how to be trans, then it's time to raise the roof.

I really hope she gets some decent support. Does she have activities with friends outside school that could send her in a different direction?

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 19:38

The hair plaiting is to prevent her pulling it which seems to have worked.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 19:35

@KittenKong

They don’t have enough staff to run clubs yet this balloonery is one they choose to spent precious resources on?
Yes I thought that to!
OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 19:33

And DD much more settled this week like getting all of her thoughts off her chest has helped.
I've been plaiting her hair and just given her a haircut thanks to a you tube video so she's all good. I also told the specialist autism person who is working with her, he was a WTF as well.

OP posts:
KittenKong · 03/12/2021 19:32

They don’t have enough staff to run clubs yet this balloonery is one they choose to spent precious resources on?

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 03/12/2021 19:22

So I've heard back from the school, this is a go away and be quiet...which isn't going to happen until I'm certain the kids are safe:

Thank you for your letter regarding the LGBT+ support group and the constructive points that you have raised. The idea of this type of affinity club is to provide a safe space for students and to provide an opportunity to socialise with friends and ask questions. These groups are run in many schools nationally as part of an inclusive school community.

The support group has been running for the past three years at.. Sessions are 25 minutes long, with the first 15 to 20 minutes given over to socialising with friends while having lunch. This is supervised at all times. The final 5 minutes are made available for students to ask questions, which are usually relating to advice on how to cope with bullying or prejudice, the meaning of certain terminology and advice on where to get further support.

Students are always encouraged to speak to the pastoral support manager or their tutor about any concerns they have and all answers to questions are moderated by Mr ...l, who runs the group. While this sometimes includes discussion of sexuality and gender identity, students are never asked directly about their own identity and are encouraged to take time when choosing language about themselves. These sessions do not involve sex education, which is all covered in the school PSHE curriculum.

We have three separate groups organised by age; year 7/8; year 9/10 and Y11/VI form. However, some Year 11 students do, on occasion, come and support with the other groups. Again, they are supervised and any input they provide has been pre-planned and discussed to ensure that it is age appropriate. Mr … will speak to all students again about this to ensure that nothing inappropriate is being discussed.

I appreciate your comments regarding neurodivergent students and I am concerned that ... increased anxiety could be linked to these sessions. As mentioned above, the sessions are not ‘taught’, and any questions are driven by students and responded to in a professional way. The aim of these sessions is to provide a positive and inclusive environment for students and Mr ... is there to ensure discussion is age appropriate. I also agree that it would be good to have other clubs available, but we are limited by the availability of staff to run these clubs during lunchtime. Mr … gives up his own time to run these sessions. … currently is not requiring extra support as she is settled and supported in class. She has a learning passport which provides strategies to staff to support her.

Moving forward, Mr … will look at ways to reinforce the rules and expectations of these sessions so that students are clear about the purpose and parameters of any discussion with peers or questions being asked. We will also look at ways to communicate with parents about the LBGT+ support group and contact information for parental questions. For example, our website already contains information about the LGBTQ+ club (, and we will also send out an extracurricular clubs list to parents.

I hope that this has addressed the points that you have raised. Please feel free to email me if you have any further questions or concerns.

At the moment I'm not sure how I will reply so I'm going to have a glass Wine and think about it over the weekend.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 02/12/2021 18:09

Great name SorryAuntLydia and thank you that's kind to say, I do sometimes worry about girls like DD who don't have a persistent parent my friend is really struggling to get help with her DD who is waiting a autism assessment and is becoming very controlling and violent but finds it much harder to be assertive.

I know ScrollingLeaves it's rubbish wish they'd just leave kids alone. Adult sexuality is completely different to a child's emerging sexuality.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 02/12/2021 12:15

Yes, you are wonderful.
Well done for writing the letter. I hope it might lead to the school reassessing their safeguarding.

Most of all I hope you can somehow get your DD away from worrying over all this.

There used to be a free period in life called girlhood which was from about 10 - 16. What a shame for all girls that it has been groomed out of our society.

SorryAuntLydia · 02/12/2021 09:46

Today we have just had the report come from the autism specialist we paid to assess her and make recommendations to help her whilst in school, it's heart breaking to read, DH has just come in read it and I've told him what I've been up to, which has resulted in him crying and making me cry as he says what fucking chance does she have? Why did we bring her into this world? sad

I think this is my tipping point and time for me to stand up for my children and their future.

@Sickoffamilydrama I just want to say that this post brought tears to my eyes. You are a wonderful mum and there is an army of women cheering you on. With you as their mum, both of your DDs have every chance in this world Flowers