Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Critic my Letter to DD school regards LGBT club

190 replies

Sickoffamilydrama · 28/11/2021 23:50

I've just found out that our 12 year old autistic DD has been attending a lunch time LGBT club and now tells me she is bisexual, (apparently she needs choose what she is) & suddenly obsessively drawing flags on everything including herself.

She has been exhibiting worsening ticks like pulling her hair really tight and lip licking until above her mouth is sore & finger sucking.

She suddenly has a friend who identifies as a boy as well (I don't care if our daughter is straight, gay or whatever) but I'm worried what has been discussed, she's 12 hasn't gone through puberty yet and shows limited comprehension regarding relationships, she doesn't need to worry about this, or be considering any kind of sexual relationship.

This has left her confused and clearly anxious, I'm beyond livid to see her distress especially as the school are not doing much about her being massively behind and clearly academically struggling.

So help me by looking at the draft wording for a letter to the head of year and the safe guarding lead.

Dear
I writing to you to raise my concerns regarding the school's lunch time LGBT club, which my daughter informs me is open to children in all year groups. Whilst it is admirable the school wish to support pupils, it is inappropriate that sexuality is discussed in a mixed age group.

My daughter who is autistic and vulnerable has recently been attending with her friend, this has left her confused and anxious with her exhibiting increased ticks, some of which are boarding on harmfull.
She tells me that she now needs to choose what sexuality she is and has become anxious she doesn't have a boyfriend or particularly have any sexual feelings towards boys, this has led her to become very distressed culminating in her deciding she must be bisexual. Even though she feels no attraction to girls. She has then obsessively been drawing flags on herself and with her notebooks.

Prior to attending the LGBT club she had never exhibited any of this anxiety around her sexuality, rightly so as she is 12 years old and still in the very early stages of puberty, therefore she should not be considering sex.

I am unclear what is discussed at this club but the mixed age group is clearly a safeguarding issue a 16/17/18 year old should never be talking to a 12 year old about sex or sexuality these age groups have quite different needs and comprehension. This massive difference between young and older teens is recognised in PHSE guidance hence why children are given age appropriate information. They also appears to be no pastoral or any other kind of support attached to this club which is present when PHSE is taught as part of the curriculum, neither was I aware of this club or my daughter attending it until she suddenly became distressed.

There also appears to have been no consideration for children like my daughter who have a disability that disadvantages her compared to her peers.The difficulties in understanding intentions, missing social subtleties, limited peer interactions and often lower emotional age, means that children with autism require more support or they risk misunderstand important information regarding sex and relationships.

I await your response on this matter.

Not sure if I should put less about the distress and confusion she's been exhibiting. Once this letter had gone I'll be raising the stonewall & mermaids links they have on their LGBT web page using safe school alliance templates/advice.

OP posts:
334bu · 16/12/2021 07:04

Still no answers to the list of questions... probably because they know that some of the answers will highlight a lack of safe guarding.

More likely unwilling to put anything down in writing, might be an idea to ask for your meeting to be minuted.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 16/12/2021 06:52

Just an update for everyone there school have replied to my 2nd email.
They want to meet to fob me off reassure me after Christmas.

Still no answers to the list of questions... probably because they know that some of the answers will highlight a lack of safe guarding.

OP posts:
FancyFlipFlops · 06/12/2021 02:01

It might also be worth finding out who the governor is who is tasked with safeguarding and sending them a copy of the letters you send and the schools replies.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 05/12/2021 21:22

Good point ScrollingLeaves I'm leaving it for a few days before replying so hopefully I'll spot anything else that needs altering.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 05/12/2021 20:53

Well done for already preparing your response.

“14. What are the definitions and terminology used, where do these come from do they match PHSE guidance? “

I wondered if “do they meet PHSE guidance?” might be a bit vague and invite the answer ‘Yes’, with them assuming it is correct guidance.

So, when you say, “where do these come from” it is important to get a precise answer, as some sources may be incorrect or misleading.

Carey1932 · 05/12/2021 19:27

I am a mother of four children, but long ago, ie. I am a grandmother many times over, I am on this site because I am interested (as a retired feminist academic) about the current situation of children in schools and their mothers concerns about them, I hope you do not mind that I joined to find out what the problems are for mothers and the teaching of sexuality in the schools of your children........I live in Sydney, Australia

MrsOvertonsWindow · 05/12/2021 18:52

I reckon you could do quite a bit of editing to those questions OP.
BUT - as the purpose is to get the school to do what they should have done at the outset, (think about purpose, outcomes, supervision or lack of it, safeguarding, boundaries, age appropriate, protection of children and staff) then it's probably fine?

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 05/12/2021 18:10

So this is the list of questions to reply back with so far you'll see I've copied MrsOvertonsWindow work a lot :

  1. What are the aims of the groups?
  2. What criteria is used to select children for these groups? How is attendance at the group monitored? If children are involved with other professionals (Safeguarding investigations, Social care, Ed psych) what information is shared with them?
  3. What training has the teacher received in order to run groups for such young children about their sexuality?
  4. What professional supervision does the school offer the teacher in their role of running groups for children about sex and sexuality?
  5. How is parental consent sought ? Are all parents aware that Mr and random 15 / 16 year olds are discussing sexuality and gender identity with children as young as 11 in unstructured groups that are student led? (according to your letter).
  6. How does the school ensure that older students have the appropriate safeguarding, child psychology, child development and wisdom that is required of professionals discussing sex and sexuality with children as young as 11.
  7. What records are kept of these sessions?
  8. What formal safeguarding measures have been put in place to ensure that all discussions are age appropriate (especially if they are student led) and that safeguarding is a priority for children below the age of consent?
  9. How are the outcomes of the groups assessed and monitored - on an individual and group basis?
10. What oversight does Senior Management have for these groups? 11. Are similar groups run for children from other protected characteristics? Such as something for autistic girls considering adults with autism are known to have 3 times the level of depression and anxiety than the general population. With autistic girls and women particularly adversely affected. 12. How have 15/16 been trained if a child makes a disclosure of sexual abuse. Are they old enough to be potentially exposed to that kind of traumatic disclosure? 13.How can sexuality be discussed without sex being mentioned therefore how can it not be PHSE? 14. What are the definitions and terminology used, where do these come from do they match PHSE guidance? 15. Are there limits to what is defined, if it's a spontaneous question and answer session doesn't this open it up to some abusing the system and asking for definitions of extreme sexual behaviour?

Think I've covered most things.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 05/12/2021 14:51

@Jackofallsorts

Withdraw her from the school immediately.
Whilst I'm tempted mostly because of the lack of adequate SEN support, it's not something I'd do without lots of consideration as it would spiral her into massive anxiety and probably lots of autistic meltdowns which in the past have led to her physically attacking me or even worse if we aren't 100% on it her siblings. Which is another reason why this club has pissed me off so much as the school doesn't have to deal with the emotional and physical repercussions of their "inclusivity."
OP posts:
Jackofallsorts · 05/12/2021 10:30

Withdraw her from the school immediately.

LizzieSiddal · 05/12/2021 10:25

Thats great your MP is on board.

DoubleTweenQueen · 05/12/2021 08:24

@Sickoffamilydrama Yes, good news your MP is interested enough to send a letter to school, because it might knock some sense into them that this is a significant issue and they must address it properly.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/12/2021 23:27

That's very good news about your MP Sickoffamilydrama

I do think there's a growing awareness of the excesses of all this in relation to children. The professional arrogance of the school in sending you that incoherent, contradictory response is very helpful as in their own words it exposes the lack of safeguarding and potential dangers.

TurquoiseBaubles · 04/12/2021 23:13

I too had a "scripture" club at my school. It was held in a lovely warm classroom where we could all chat about everything rather than braving the (often scary) cold playground.

The cool kids didn't go there; it was populated with the awkward, the geeks, the misfits. We could pretend we believed in God and discuss how terrible a non-Christian world was, and eat our lunch in peace. I loved it.

Still don't believe in God Hmm. And thankfully although I was encouraged to embrace Christianity, it didn't involve changing my name, taking any medication or damaging my future.

Looking back, though, there were a few very weird older boys who, with hindsight, weren't there for the religious aspect either. I avoided them.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 04/12/2021 22:46

For me I don't care if DD is gay or not tootyfruitypickle it's the eroding of normal boundaries as to who should be discussing sex & sexuality. I agree with you they are making a big deal of it which for kids who are still either not interested/ready to think about this put unnecessary pressure.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 04/12/2021 22:41

@ScrollingLeaves

Time to ditch LGBTQA+ and rainbows There is no such entity. It is a branding ploy.
Yes all of this doesn't actually help reduce bullying or homophobia, my elder daughter's friend's who are gay still get bullied because they are gay/non conforming.
OP posts:
tootyfruitypickle · 04/12/2021 22:23

12 is not an unusual age to come out as gay (my dd did at 11) but I wouldn't want a school club making it the be all and end all like this.

Original poster
Sickoffamilydrama · 04/12/2021 22:18

Well I'm surprised I wasn't expecting my MP to respond even though I've heard she is fairly good at replying.

She's come back to me and shares my concerns, she's going to write to the school and she also asked about what reply I'd had so I've passed it onto with notes why it's still a load of rubbish.

This is progress I hope 🤞

OP posts:
ditalini · 04/12/2021 19:39

It kind of reminds me of the Scripture Union club at my secondary school which was run by some fairly charismatic older pupils and was also a "safe" unthreatening place for shy, awkward me when my friend took me along.

Until I was being subtly pressured to say things I didn't believe and feel guilty about things I shouldn't have felt guilty about (oh yeah, and told my family were going to hell which at least the LGBT club presumably doesn't do ).

New religions, same script.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/12/2021 19:17

Time to ditch LGBTQA+ and rainbows
There is no such entity. It is a branding ploy.

DoubleTweenQueen · 04/12/2021 16:48

@BlueberryCheezecake “In my day”, a 12 yr old wouldn’t have felt the necessity to define their sexuality in concrete terms. It wouldn’t have been on their radar. 14 was a normal age to become interested romantically in others, of whatever sex, and the age of consent was (and is) 16, so most kids kept well away and focussed on just being a kid. I don’t see anything wrong with that. There are far too many pressures on pre-teens and teens to justify themselves to the world. We always knew who were the edgy kids, who were probably gay, and it really didn’t matter. It’s still the sort of person you are, in your heart, that matters. Sexuality is a small piece of the multi-faceted jigsaw that is a person’s character.

And I’m with LGB Alliance - time to ditch the trans gender ideology, which is extremely harmful to children of any sexuality, and has got completely out of hand. But also - just let the children be children. Just lay off them. It’s really not helping. Quite the reverse, if 12 yr olds are talking about puberty blockers/hormones/top surgery - that’s out of f@@@ing order.

KittenKong · 04/12/2021 16:05

No ‘in my day’ a 12 year old child talking about sexuality (gay, straight or bi with a teacher would cause concern at school. My sister is gay, our English teacher (and others) was gay - they certainly never discussed (either) sexuality.

Now primary ages kids are announcing their sexuality without even knowing what it really means.

Lovelyricepudding · 04/12/2021 15:19

and being gay was considered abnormal or deviant and cause for intervention or concern.

As opposed to now when it is considered akin to antisemitism, a prejudice to be unlearnt, sexual racism according to LGBT+ Stonewall?

BlueberryCheezecake · 04/12/2021 15:13

@KittenKong

Good god - in my day of a 12 year old announced to a teacher that they were gay or bi they’d hit the big red safeguarding button.

As with business letters - I’d out exactly when I’d want a response and how (call, email etc).

I would also CC the Head teacher. They can’t pretend this isn’t happening. Would her friends parents also be minded to write with their concerns?

In your day, if a 12 year old girl said she liked boys, would this also lead to "hitting the safeguarding button"? Of course it wouldn't, because it would be considered perfectly normal. "In your day," we had section 28 because of the belief that gay people were dangerous to children, and would groom them or influence them. That's why a kid thinking they were gay would "hit the safeguarding button", because the same people who'd think it normal for a girl to have a crush on a boy would think it sinister for a girl to have a crush on a girl. You're crying out to the good old homophobic days where discussion of anything LGBT was banned in schools, and being gay was considered abnormal or deviant and cause for intervention or concern.
MrsOvertonsWindow · 04/12/2021 12:27

Thank you for the Gin Sickoffamilydrama

It's exhausting having to unpick the lack of professional / ethical thinking behind so much of what's happening in schools with LGBT issues. It's as if senior staff abandon all critical thinking for fear of being accused of homophobia / transphobia.

Your point upthread about having a heterosexual lunchtime group to discuss sex and sexuality was very powerful. Everyone knows that individual teachers mustn't initiate discussions about sex with random children. Yet call it an LGBT group and suddenly there's no problem?