Are you watching Womanhood?

I'm totally confused how Suzi Ruffell, a stand-up comedian ffs, could barely put up with listening to someone who had different views from herself. How does she manage to do her job?

Also, the Only Fans young woman - how upsetting hearing what her dad said to her. Our DD is a student. I just can't imagine DH saying to her, what, you earn how much! Just crack on.

A couple of people have made the comparison between flat earthism and gender identity theory so I'll take the opportunity to recommend this novel: The End of the World is Flat

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B098KS95KX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apan_glt_dl_3YM5C27F1DV0JMGVKP4Y?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Blimey I am so glad I didn't watch this now, my blood pressure couldn't have taken it.

To me it's the BBC trying to be all serious and making the mistake that fame = intelligence. I am always roundly disabused of this notion whenever I watch celebrities on quiz shows and am totally blown away by their complete lack of general knowledge.

To the pp re TWAW. No they are not and I will never believe that they are.

All this "born in the wrong body" really pisses me off too. I have a disability. I wish I could have had another, fully functioning body but I can't.

I was going to watch on catch up today but I do t think I’ll bother. It sounds disappointingly dreadful.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?

No. I don’t. They are men.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?

Absolutely not. And nothing to do with fear either, it's just fact.

The same way the earth is not flat.

I see those who say TWAW exactly the same as flat-earthers.

I remember Sinitta being on a programme about surrogacy or adopting a child (sorry, can’t remember which). She had a living room that was all white and she explained the children wouldn’t be allowed in said living room once they had arrived/been delivered.
There were certain areas of the house which would be off limits to the children, she proudly explained.
It was heartwarming as I’m sure you can imagine.

I can't bear to watch this programme now. Was there any mention of intelligent women just going about their lives, making invaluable contributions to medicine, science, engineering, politics, society in general?

Or was the whole thing focused purely on women as "other", and the ways in which these mystical, capricious, sexy beasts differ from "standard" (male) people?

It sounds really stupid and annoying and biased, I think I'll give it a miss.

I found the reaction of the woman with the short hair (a podcaster I think?) to meeting Nic very odd. I mean she was having a bit of a meltdown. She was going to meet a woman in swimming pool changing rooms who had a different opinion to her and she could barely cope. Yet at the same time, couldn't understand why other women wouldn't want to get naked next to strange men.

@aweegc that was comedian Suzi Ruffell. I really hoped that as a lesbian, and after all the recent hoo-ha about intact male TW pressuring lesbians into sex, that she'd be able to think more critically. But no, she initially refused to be a part of that debate, then was clearly closed off when she did 🙁

As PPs have said, such a wasted opportunity with no joining of the dots. It was so frustrating that I wish I'd never watched it.

We had Sinitta, who had obviously had cosmetic surgery, aghast that young women were getting cosmetic surgery. We had the classic "I'm having the surgery for myself not for anyone else", yet no discussion of the reasons why women feel the need to alter their appearances apart from social media influences.

Shirley thinking a pat on the arse by a man is a bit of fun, that women are too sensitive about bantz 🙄

We had no mention of the serious issue of TW in female sports, female prisons, female refuges, etc, and how self ID could allow intact males in with the most vulnerable women. No mention of how sex crimes commited by males who self ID as women are being recorded as female crimes.

Then Shirley asking the TW how her fiance of 3-4 years didn't realise she was actually a he, and the TW refusing to answer. That the TW wasn't challenged on WTF s/he didn't tell their fiance this extremely important piece of information within the first few dates.

The Only Fans woman who felt “liberated” by dropping out of uni, with her dad's blessing(!), to earn huge amounts of money doing online sex work, yet no mention of why we have a situation in society where young women can earn more doing that than in a, for want of a better word, worthy career. No mention of why we have so many sleazy men who will buy these services and how that attitude impacts all women.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women?
No, I see them as men who want to be women, but underneath all the cosmetic surgery (and don't forget most keep their penises!) and hormones, they are fundamentally still men. I know 3 TW, 1 very well, and s/he doesn't even call herself a woman.

I'm sick of #BeKind, of #NoDebate, and I'm sick of wasted opportunities to enlighten the public like this pile of shite programme 😡😢 It could've been so much better but felt largely superficial.

@Heidi1982 same. It's actually really bothered me. This is a 90 minute programme (supposedly) about women, by our national broadcaster, and the message ends up being "what about the poor men?".

The poor rapists. The poor porn buyers. The poor folx committing sex by deception. The poor penis havers Dr Nic wants out of women's spaces.

It's absolutely maddening but a good example of the #BeKind drive and the terrible impact it has on women and our safety.

I heard Jacqueline being interviewed about this and was interested. It sounds infuriating so I am glad I didn’t bother!

I've woken up even more disappointed by this programme.

For a programme supposedly about women it really centred the feeling of men. Rapists, users of pornography, transwomen were all subjects of sympathy and concern.

Depressing.

I Mean Danielle says they’re a woman. Do you think I’m mad to say they’re not?

Do I genuinely not think trans women are women?

Well no obviously not because they’re men otherwise what would they be transition from and too?

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad

This is like asking if most people on here genuinely don't see that the earth is flat. In my mind (and most of the population's) it is mad to saw that TWAW.

Do people on here genuinely not see trans women as women? In my mind that’s mad, these are people have felt like they are in the wrong body almost their entire lives, and finally feel at peace once they have transitioned.

Firstly, no - I genuinely and sincerely don't think anyone born & raised as one sex, has a clue what it's like to be the other.

I can 100% understand not wanting to adhere to stereotypes & feeling deeply uncomfortable with the expectations placed on you because of your sex. I can understand wanting to escape them & live a life free of such expectations. I can understand wanting to wear whatever you like, in the colours & styles you like.

I can't understand for the life of me (and I've really tried) how any of that cosmetic expression makes you the opposite sex.

And nobody will break if down for me either, other than 'be kind' or 'inner feelings'. All while not giving a fuck that a male expressed his entitlement by taking a women's place at the Olympics, a male is telling rape victims to reframe their trauma, and males convicted of sexual assault on women have been (and are still) locked up with female prisoners because (and this is written down in a MOJ review) the mental health of trans prisoners is more important than the physical safety and mental health of female ones.

Can someone explain to me why 'be kind' says fuck you to all those women, in favour of males?

Telegraph article on the show

www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2021/11/26/womanhood-review-exactly-can-british-feminists-agree-days/

I found the reaction of the woman with the short hair (a podcaster I think?) to meeting Nic very odd. I mean she was having a bit of a meltdown. She was going to meet a woman in swimming pool changing rooms who had a different opinion to her and she could barely cope. Yet at the same time, couldn't understand why other women wouldn't want to get naked next to strange men.

Her initial reaction was like that of mine when I'm facing a very real life trauma trigger (ie seeing my abuser).

I also found it incredibly patronising that the younger woman saw the older ones as mothers. As a mother, just fuck off. How about older women being friends, maybe with more wisdom (lived experience)? There's nothing wrong with being a mother per se, but it's a heavily loaded title in the context of patriarchy, one they didn't seem to appreciate. It also makes it easy to disregard what older women are saying, in away that doesn't happen so much if you call the person a friend.

This will have been heavily edited. You can tell just by watching it, the conversation doesn't flow like in real life, it's cut together.

I'm surprised they didn't have daft Lorraine Kelly and India " I am a woman let that penetrate!" Willoughby on, they would have put everyone's mind at rest....not.

For a documentary about womanhood I think they showed us all exactly what the issue was. Females being socialised to be kind. The end bit over tea was so ironic. Sitting there eroding the consent and boundaries of women after all the topics they had discussed. Pitiful.

Dr Jess, Joolz and Dr Nic all great of course.

99.999% of trans women just want to peacefully get changed in a room in which they sincerely identify

You invented that statistic. Read local newspapers, or transcrimeuk.com for a string of offences committed by TW against women and children.
Also, no matter how peacefully they wish to use our spaces, their presence is still preventing many women’s peaceful use of rooms intended for our sole use.