Schoolgirls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour - Times Scotland

Because of a political agenda, forced on these children by adults, who are determined to remove privacy and female only provisions from females to benefit males.

The moderate position is fine, make some mixed sex spaces while leaving single sex provisions alone, and this equally respects and meets all needs.

This causes howls of rage from the political lobbies forcing this on kids and women. Nothing will do except total capitulation, and it is better that females be excluded or harmed than that any compromise or mutual respect is considered. That's the point that a lobby requires strong legal boundaries because they will not respect the needs and differences of others voluntarily, if those needs conflict with their personal wishes.

2319inprogress, the comments on the Southern's FB page are quite heartening too, plenty of 'wtf' - also people saying girls are waiting until lunchtime and going to the loo in local supermarkets rather than use the school facilities.

But seriously I read some real rabbit hole stuff on here that the general public would find just as wacky as they do this trans bathroom stuff.

What rabbit hole stuff? Please elaborate?

@334bu

I already said I thought it was wrong which is why I clicked this post in the first place. Not just because of trans - even if there were none it would still be a terrible idea in schools.

But seriously I read some real rabbit hole stuff on here that the general public would find just as wacky as they do this trans bathroom stuff.

I realise that this is NOT the main concern for any of us really, but what strikes me is that this is unfair to all of our children, although of girls are (as always) disproportionately at risk.

Last year at school my son was accused of something very serious, but which he did not do (school staff witnessed what actually did happen so were able to handle it very coolly) but the girl's parents backed her so fully that they reported my son to any person in authority they could possibly think of, including the police and social services.

Now - they were 7 at the time. And there were two adult witnesses who saw that this girl told a silly 7 year old fib which then got blown up out of all proportion by her parents (who believed their daughter as we all instinctively would but then refused to hear the reality).

But it chills me utterly to think what if he'd been 15/16/17/18, and in a bathroom with girls as young as 11. What if one of them made a similar claim, where there are not going to be adult witnesses around? Who is protecting any of the children in that scenario?

Girls and boys/women and men have single sex spaces for REASONS. Those reasons do not cease to exist because TRANS. I have a son and a daughter and I'm always walking the line between the two. This is a terrible terrible step backwards for girls, but also for boys, who also have a right to dignity and privacy.

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

Yes but what is your opinion about girls being forced to share toilets with people of the opposite sex?

Oh bingos on tonight?!

I've got agist and sexist already

@dropthevipers

The delete all comments against whatever the article is pro pretty much - not just those ones, believe me I know. It’s pointless trying to comment honestly there on anything.

@dropthevipers

They have (or had I don’t really look at it much because it’s always been kind of crap) loads of female writers who were the exact same opinion with the exact same interest in anti-trans stuff writing there once to the point every other article was about that or at least some kind of feminist thing. It was hard to tell if it was a serious news site or just meant to give that perspective really.

Which is why I said they seemed exactly like those on Mumsnet feminism space, British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy echo chamber opinions (not just on trans stuff but everything) with the specific language which reflects that (and confuses everyone else). Basically carbon copy’s of one another.

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

[quote TarasCrazyTiara]@dropthevipers

From what I’ve seen the gaurdian is practically mumsnet a feminism section in a newspaper.[/quote]
Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. Not for nothing that a load of GC stories simply dont get covered there-i.e. if you were relying on the Guardian you would never have heard at all about the Girl Guides stuff.f you try to comment on an opinion piece with anything remotely GC it gets binned. Oh, and they fucking love Judith Butler.

@RedCarpetRebellion, unfortunately, the way our borough works I won't know which school she got into until March!

@dropthevipers

From what I’ve seen the gaurdian is practically mumsnet a feminism section in a newspaper.

LadyDansburysHat - I am in a similar situation to you with two children who will be moving up to the new Peebles building. I attended an initial consultation about the new campus particularly because of the issue of single / mixed sex toilets after learning a lot on here! I was relieved when another parent asked about this. We were told then that while nothing was decided yet, the designers were well aware of the contentious nature of this issue and that it would not be just all gender neutral blocks (mixed sex) and nothing else. They were clear that there should be single sex toilets for those who would prefer this and that choice for pupils was a key priority.

While I am quite pleased with this, I will be watching very closely for more info on this as planning develops and will be ready to make my voice heard if necessary.

This article is useful to cite on school toilets

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4987780/amp/Headmaster-apologises-gender-neutral-toilets.html

Christ this really upsets me. The thought of those girls not being able to go to the toilet all day, it’s like a form on torture, and will no doubt cause a high instance of cystitis, UTIs and kidney infections in the short term, not to mention long term implications to their bladder health. Plus the impossibility of having a period under these circumstances. And of course no one seems to have thought to sort out the little shits period shaming and intimidating them because “boys will be boys”. For fucks sake we are going backwards.

I think ideally schools should take a firm and sensible line on this and be clear that sex and gender are two different things. Toilets are divided by sex not gender so you go to the one that matches your sex. And that has nothing to do with your gender identity. Along with this needs to be a strong line in stamping out any bullying of 'trans' or gender non conforming kids. And an environment which encourages mental resilience in all pupils, helping them all to be self confident and proud of who they are, not in need of constant validation. It needs firm leadership.

However, back in the real world where Scot Gov are utterly captured. There has to be male, female, and mixed sex. With the mixed sex ones being designed specifically with safety for girls in mind.

*race yards.

Fuck I’m tired today.

*rural hicks not sticks.

@TarasCrazyTiara

I’m saying there’s there’s plenty of misogyny in the borders, just because this schools kids doesn’t mean that’s less present there (I lived it, I grew up in several of those towns and schools and they are as misogynistic as anywhere-look at Hawick’s common riding, only men allowed up until fairly recently, the cornet and cornets men all male, thousands of council money spent on ceremonies that are basically men drinking).

There’s a lot of common sense there too, in that we see first hand biology is real growing up around it.

In cities I think it’s generally a different balance, where the misogyny is framed as progressive pro trans.

This border’s school common sense kids reinstating single sex toilets of their own accord doesn’t change there’s the same underlying misogyny there as anywhere. I guess I meant to point that out before saying how great the common sense, reality understanding that comes with growing up around country animals. It wasn’t meant to imply it’s more or less, just that it exists there the same as everywhere, despite plenty who will know hands on that biology is real. I didn’t suggest or imply ‘the sticks’ though that’s your bias reading into it. And there a lot of wealth in the borders also, expensive rage yards, country estates, massive farm estates. That you’d assume it’s the sticks is ignorant.

My college (over ten years ago now) built some new toilets. They were supposedly unisex ( no entrance door but individual cubicles with long doors) but somebody decided that one would have green tiles and the other would have purple....problem solved :)

Ahh meant to quote the above post, sorry! Way too tired!

There’s also a lot of country people who grow up around farms and race yards and hunts and horses and other animals. They know fine well sex can’t be changed. They know a stallion is a very different beast from a mare, and they know geldings are not transmares.

Far too many kids are brought up too far removed from natural reality.