Schoolgirls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour - Times Scotland

That is such a good point Border. I guess people on farms usually don’t ask the cows if they identify as cows before milking?

Actually I think she may have a sort of point

People who have more contact with natural world especially farming community are I suspect less likely to buy into the idea that animals of any kind can change sex

Children who have been protected from an understanding of "birds and bees" and taught "you can be what you want to be "will fall for it more easily

Terrible.

''Increasing numbers of schools, workplaces and businesses are introducing mixed toilets to save money, free up space and foster an inclusive environment that welcomes diversity."

I wish someone would explain how removing single sex spaces in favour of mixed ones does any of this, and for whom...

I’m not from the US. But country is country everywhere and despite some differences (particular based on how well the area is doing) similarities between the areas are everywhere - so yes country people everywhere are more likely overall to be anti-trans (and less feminist). That’s reality, deny it yo yourself if you want it makes no difference. But that’s got nothing to do with the topic anyway.

If your children or your school are affected by mixed sex toilets or proposals for them, Write to the EHRC: you can make a difference

'It’s far from baffling. Country and rural people are less likely to be pro trans issues is the main point'.

Are you deeply familiar with what people in Scots borders are like?
If not that's a massive assumption.

USA and UK are totally different.

Scotland and England and Wales and NI are also all different in loads of fundamental ways.

If you are imagining that 'country people' are the same everywhere, that's just silly.

Even in USA I suspect that people in rural areas aren't the same all over the country. Given the size I'd be surprised if you are in s position to confidently say they're all the same.

Anyway.

I'm really interested in why you think it's ludicrous there would be a smaller % of trans people in rural areas. That doesn't make sense at all.

(If you insist this thread talks about the thing you don't want us to talk about.. Rather than the op about girls in Scotland school situation).

@CheeseMmmm

It’s far from baffling. Country and rural people are less likely to be pro trans issues is the main point. These people aren’t likely to “be vocal for their support for having gender > sex” they quite literally think they already mean the same thing and always have (actually most people think this and either the trans or feminist perspective on it would just seem weird to them).

Would I was saying was absurd was actually conflating the trans people who are being described as misogynists with the rural people who are not trans who (were being called) misogynists (and probably anti trans) as though the two are somehow related when they couldn’t be less so.

Having seen an opportunity to turn conversation to trans people.

You then have strong views about the guardian and how awful it is. I'm surprised as an American you're so familiar with it! You know then the political slant they have? Their target audience? But you're surprised they have often have content on women/ feminism? Erm ok!).

Then you get into echo chambers and British feminists and etc.

The thread is about schools in Scotland having mixed sex toilets! It's an important topic. Risk to real girls in real life. Happening now.

Is that something British women/ feminists are ok to discuss?

If so then unsubtly pushing the thread off topic, and onto trans situation. In order to complain about it being discussed here. Seems counter intuitive and extremely contradictory.

So you wrote that and ignored. Unless I missed a reply.

Your next post was baffling tbh. This was a bit of it.

'There’s a lot of misogyny in border towns” - are you actually conflating the misogyny of rural hicks who are sexist and grouping them with trans people? You realise those rural people who are “misogynistic” are extremely unlikely to support anything trans right?
Or are you really implying there’s a lot of trans in rural towns (laughable)?'

Rural Hicks? That's USA obv and Hicks means sort of backwards? I don't have an innate grasp of what it implies/ conjures up.

Misogyny in border towns, are you sure that translates to Hicks in USA? The same beliefs behaviours etc? Do you know what border towns are like?

Just another strong word and assumptions.

The next part is just wrong. Loads of misogynists are very vocal in their support for having gender > sex. For reasons I thought would be obvious.

Additionally. Who can say how many trans people are anywhere. Not out. Have no urge to present in any kind of different way. Why would there be a different % of trans people anywhere? Given it's from deep inside people. That doesn't make sense. To call it laughable is really dismissive of trans people in areas where hiding it would be common.

Hello and thanks for confirming you're USA, not a scot.

I saw your post and thought I'd look back through the thread.

Your first post included-

'Actually pretty worrying especially at rougher secondary schools given some of the shit some boys get up to in there. Fuck knows what pigs some would act like if a girl or two entered alone.'

It was ignored I think.

I didn't reply because it would mean going off topic and I thought it was a weird post anyway.

'Actually pretty worrying especially at rougher secondary schools given some of the shit some boys get up to in there. Fuck knows what pigs some would act like if a girl or two entered alone.'

I just thought well they don't like boys much do they.

Unless you looked into it for Scotland. Then you're making huge assumptions.

The way you phrased/worded it didn't land well with me either. Difficult to explain why though.

@Helleofabore

I’m not having a go and don’t care if my posts “are met with derision”. I came here to comment on the toilets being wrong, then mentioned something about the Gaurdian being quite like these boards IMO when someone else seemed to think it was very different.
I’m just saying that’s the demographic that is into this stuff in both places as far as so I can see. So when someone says they’re completely different this is an example of someone being so far into the issue they’ve lost touch with how people in general perceive it/them.
That you write this is “supposedly” my first time (or one of them) here shows this kind of thinking too, you really suspect I’m lying about that for some pro trans reason or something? No I literally saw the toilet headline and clicked, but because your in a feminist bubble on the issue (which as I said is very British, slanting toward middle age, you think I’m making that up because I’m against you). Again that’s very rabbit hole thinking that shows how far off you’ve gotten from the way most people would react because your so into this issue.

I'm 58. I'm afraid of the groups of teen boys lurching around at school chucking out time. God knows how the girls, especially the smallest ones, must feel. Age 11, coping with your first period, followed in by a group of 17 year old boys. Yes, girls can be vile. But not like that.

Jeez I've just had one of those wtf moments reading this. It's not like it's news to me but seriously WTAF? Girls being too afraid to go to the toilet at school because the school leavers can't think critically about some extremist ideology and enforce the law of the land. Fucking hell.

And an obvious issue I'd have thought the school would immediately identify.

Is the opportunity that a gf and bf would have for a bit or a lot of a canoodle at lunch break in a cubicle. This is teens we're talking about fgs. Very often extremely limited privacy in the warm available. Homes usually out of question. That's why the cinema is well known for teens dating!

I mean it's just bizarre that things everyone knows are somehow forgotten when it comes to this.

My DS school has gender neutral toilets and he dehydrates himself too. This policy serves no-one well, no-one at all.

When you start secondary the older students are so grown up. Big. It's not unusual to be a bit intimidated by them. Including the older girls.

For a first year or even second year you feel sort of vulnerable, physically small. Just with 'big girls'.

The idea of an 11yo girl with 18yo boy in that situation is obviously just totally wrong.

And also an 11yo boy with 18yo girl he won't like that will he.

And that's before you even get into all the potential issues.

DS3s school has open plan toilets with a girls side and boys side, they are considering making them all gender neutral. DS3 already avoids using them as they are off a corridor, he has IBS and sometimes has to deal with wind and loud gurgling, smells etc. at school. He finds this v embarrassing but would find it excruciating to have to use a cubicle next to a girl.
I will be reminding the school of the requirement to provide separate toilets under the equality act.

So very progressive

*to me!!

RedCarpetRebellion
Your post was perfectly clear me!

Which is why I said they seemed exactly like those on Mumsnet feminism space, British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy echo chamber opinions (not just on trans stuff but everything) with the specific language which reflects that (and confuses everyone else). Basically carbon copy’s of one another.

And I say that as someone who doesn’t much care about the trans/British feminist ideological battle. Most people don’t care about having an endless slant of that stuffed whether pro or anti shoved in their faces on a news outlet supposedly covering all news.

And you seem to have some pretty established prejudices that you are bringing out here, supposedly on your first visit to the board. So.... you haven't really read anything on this board but have assumed that certain demographics mean an echo chamber.

You know the average age of first time mothers in Britain is 30 years old, don't you? And this IS a British site.

The reality is that there is a wide range of voices on this particular board. I am not actually 'British' and many others are also not.

And there are many different opinions on this board too. Which there wouldn't be if it was actually an 'echo chamber'. If you actually took the time to read, often there is robust discussion.

But you are right in one respect. Most of the time, what is usually demanded on here, from all sides of the discussion is evidence of claims. If you are here to simply have a go at people and to use emotional manipulation such as the attempt to shame people for being 'British, usually 30’s or older, very feministy' then your posts will be met with matching derision.

@BlameItOnTheBlackStar this is actually another point that is often not brought up

Male teachers would be taught to not be alone in a room with a female pupil and the door shut. This is safe, sensible practice to protect all parties. We can recognise the risk in this scenario, to both the teacher and the child. But we can't recognise the risk of an 18 year old boy being shut in a room with 12 year old girl. Its bizarre. There's no other scenario where you'd think it was a good idea for an adult male to be alone with a young girl. Yes there maybe a flimsy partition between them whilst their trousers are off but there's still the sinks and toilets are pretty easy to kick in/climb over/under or see under

My one experience in the boys toilets at school told me that mixed sex toilets was always going to be a terrible idea. The smell still haunts me

Anyone remember being 12 and scared to unwrap your pad? Now imagine there's a load of sixth form boys there. Or worse actually 14 year old silly boys. I remember when a girls pad dropped out of her bag and the absolute hysterics from some stupid young teen boys that followed.

And its not the LGBTQ community who are confused. How ridiculous (and offensive) to suggest that a lesbian is confused about what bathroom they need to use. Just because a lesbian fancies women it does not mean they are not a woman and should not use the women's toilets, they are not confused about their sex because they fancy women.

Neither the L, the G or the B are confused about which bathroom to use. This is not a gay rights issue and it angers me that we constantly lump trans issues as LGB issues. Fancying the same sex is entirely different to wanting to be the opposite sex, and the lumping of LBG and T is designed to make you look homophobic when you disagree. I actually think this is a big reason why so many people struggle to support women's rights, because the T is so often conflated with the LGB.