Schoolgirls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour - Times Scotland

TarasCrazyTiara

All I can say here is ‘what the actual fuck’ ?

But advocates argue that they eliminate confusion from members of the LGBTI (lesbian, bisexual, trans and or intersex communities) over going to the ‘wrong toilet’."

Let me see if I understood this properly. Lesbians, gay boys / men and bisexual men and women would not know which lavatory to use because of their sexual orientation? Does that mean that they wouldn't know which sex they were?

Intersex people - well, they are either male or female and chances are, if they are in the UK, their sex will have been determined by the time they are in school. There might be a tiny tiny percentage whose sex is uncertain but that possibility is vanishingly small.

So, we are left with people (largely male) who want everyone to bend to their way of seeing the world, no matter what it costs to girls and women?

Well it's surprising to me since it doesn't fit with my observation

@DdraigGoch

Country and rural people are less likely to be feminists than say metro dwellers. I don’t know why that would be surprising to anyone.

@Helleofabore

Really? Threatening me with reporting for generalisations for saying country people skewed more conservative on the whole? They do, you can easily look this up. Obviously there are people with different views everywhere but country people do tend to hold more conservative views and identify as such on average.

But given the threat to try to get me banned I’ll just stop since it’s clear that you’ll try to censor anything which doesn’t conform to your chosen narrative. Ironic.

The whole point of this thread has been lost to pointless bickering.

I have observed no correlation between town :country and feminist principles

Therefore, given the small size of the transgender community, a few additional mixed sex single entry toilets could be provided , if funds are available. However, this should not be done at the expense of existing single sex provision

But again this raises the question that is never answered , given the safety issues that single entry enclosed cubicles present and its only thr accessible toilet that has the alarm pull, why are trans children not entitled to the same level of safeguarding as other children.

It is not OK to place trans children who still have a sex regardless of how they feel about that in dangerous situations to avoid being a adult and saying NO.

The expense of providing suitably designed individual mixed sex single entry toilets ( similar design to disabled provision) in a school would be astronomical . Therefore, given the small size of the transgender community, a few additional mixed sex single entry toilets could be provided , if funds are available. However, this should not be done at the expense of existing single sex provision.

The reality is that people in the country and rural areas are by and large are more conservative on issues like this than metro areas. I have no idea why you would try to deny it.

I did grow up in the country, and I, like you know many people who also grew up in the country. Some are conservative, some are not. That is my point.

My point is you are making generalisations about groups of people that you are often presenting as negative whether you realise it or not.

And I think you also label people as ‘anti-trans’ without any reference to just what that means. I know many women who have feminist ideals from the country, they don’t necessarily apply the label ‘feminist’ but that doesn’t mean they don’t hold feminist values.

I also know plenty of country people who support trans people. Supporting trans people doesn’t mean allowing single sex spaces to be converted to mixed sex. This is not ‘anti-trans’, by the way. Which seems to be how you are framing it.

As I said, you are making generalisations that I don’t agree with. And if you read the posting guidelines, MNHQ take a pretty dim view of generalisations like that.

It's not that they are more conservative in the country
It's just they have a better grasp on reality, nature and biology
More in tune if you like

But trans activists do seem to be misogynistic?
In fact I would go further and say trans ideology and belief is fundamentally misogynistic

I mean how is it not misogynistic to want to replace sex based rights with gender based rights?

How s it not misogynistic to claim that being a women isn't fundamentally tied to reproductive biology ?

The of mixed toilets is appalling.

At my son’s all-boys school, the toilets had to be redesigned, because the boys quickly realised it’s the one place in school without CCTV so would get up to all sorts of nonsense in there - blocking toilets, damaging sinks and doors, pissing on the floor, leaving it in a disgusting mess. It was costing the school a fortune in repairs and the cleaners were so fed up. So they took the door off and the walls down, and instead had individual cubicles directly onto the corridor with CCTV on the corridor and staff outside at breaktime.

In my daughter’s all-girls school this does not happen (although they do get up to other stuff in there, usually involving mobile phones).

If you were a girl having to share with boys it would be awful.

Also as others have pointed out, the age and size difference between a Y7 girl and a Y11 boy - it’s just not appropriate - and the girl would be really uncomfortable.
In fact my son’s school now has designated year group toilets for this reason.

They also have a gender-neutral toilet for any pupil who would prefer it.

@Helleofabore

I’m not telling you your out of the touch with majority thinking on trans toilet stuff, which you would know if you read my posts instead of just imagining anyone who disagrees with you in any way is on the other side in your ideological “battle”. That shows very insular thinking on your part.

What I said was conflating trans activists as misogynists who were like old fashioned misogynists (it was someone else who posted talking about them in relation to the country) was absurd and laughable to most people and it was this kind of stuff that was out of touch with the majority (who wouldn’t have a clue what you were talking about).

Who you know from the country is irrelevant, I grew up in the country and know plenty of country people - that is also irrelevant. The reality is that people in the country and rural areas are by and large are more conservative on issues like this than metro areas. I have no idea why you would try to deny it. I’m not “sneering” at them at all, as you have no idea what my actual thoughts on it are other than thinking single sex toilets should stay.

BTW I am not anti-trans, but I am pro sex based women's rights.

This makes my blood boil

Seeing reports in local news here in Scotland, also hear people talking about it - girls not drinking all day so they don't have to go to the toilet, staying off school during their periods, etc etc. What a horrible experience it must be, as if girls are not self-conscious enough at that age.

I actually think you do believe I’m secretly some trans activist or something which is hilarious.

Well, you can think that. It is pretty irrelevant what your views were on trans issues, as long as you didn’t post anything transphobic. I was referring to the sneery tone of your generalisations about the people posting on this site, and also the negative generalisations about other population groups.

loislovesstewie

I am with you on that.

supporting trans issues and other progressive issues

I know quite a few ‘country’ people who ‘support’ trans issues and are progressive. What a bizarre take. And again, really shows your preconceived ideas about ‘country’ people.

And you have referred to trans issues a few times now. I can safely say that many people on this thread ‘support trans people’s’ needs? What a superficial view to attribute to people.

They don’t, however, believe that gender should take priority over sex in issues such as single sex spaces, where sex matters.

And many trans people also agree. And bizarrely, from the latest surveys, the majority of the UK also agree that males with penises should not have access to female changing rooms and toilets. Yet you are trying to tell us we are out of touch with the majority thinking.

I actually think you do believe I’m secretly some trans activist or something which is hilarious.

Whether you are a transactivist or not is irrelevant. However, you do seem to be trying very hard to derail a thread about girls being forced to share intimate spaces with people of the opposite sex.

Because they are all thick local yokels perhaps? I was born and bred in a very rural county and have lived in cities/ethnically diverse conurbations all my adult life. I don't see much difference from my experiences.

Lol “clear prejudices”?
For pointing out that rural and country areas will generally be less inclined toward supporting trans issues and other progressive issues? That’s just the reality.
I actually think you do believe I’m secretly some trans activist or something which is hilarious.

I agree about the cows BTW!

[quote TarasCrazyTiara]@Helleofabore

I’m not having a go and don’t care if my posts “are met with derision”. I came here to comment on the toilets being wrong, then mentioned something about the Gaurdian being quite like these boards IMO when someone else seemed to think it was very different.
I’m just saying that’s the demographic that is into this stuff in both places as far as so I can see. So when someone says they’re completely different this is an example of someone being so far into the issue they’ve lost touch with how people in general perceive it/them.
That you write this is “supposedly” my first time (or one of them) here shows this kind of thinking too, you really suspect I’m lying about that for some pro trans reason or something? No I literally saw the toilet headline and clicked, but because your in a feminist bubble on the issue (which as I said is very British, slanting toward middle age, you think I’m making that up because I’m against you). Again that’s very rabbit hole thinking that shows how far off you’ve gotten from the way most people would react because your so into this issue.[/quote]
I just responding to the clear prejudices that come through in your posts. As have other posters.