Erin Pizzey and the founding of dv shelters in the UK

How has this thread about that really fascinating piece about pizzey starting the DV shelter turned into a thread about women being complicit etc?

Looking at the pics in the article is sobering.

Women who went back in the article and were killed.

Whatever their reasons they paid for it.

I remember her too. I was 12or 13, and thought it was a) shocking that men hurt their wives at all (sheltered with a dad who was courteous and kind and wouldn't hurt anyone), but my mum was v disapproving - Catholicism probably. Mum felt vindicated when Pizzey repudiated her earlier stance.

That particular example there were warnings by feminist groups etc that the actual intent of the law was always to target women.

Not disagreeing with post but that example it was flagged.

And again, everyone has a choice not to be violent.

Everyone has a choice not to take drugs. Everyone has a choice not to break the law. People have the choice not to have children with unsuitable partners. People have the choice to leave jobs they hate.

Everyone has a choice not to do a lot of things; it doesn't mean that people always make the best choices.

And again, everyone has a choice not to be violent.

I think you misunderstand the complex behaviours that some women in DV situations exhibit.

For example, it's quite common for children growing up in an environment of DV to blame their mother for provoking the abuser - in some cases by means of violence themselves.

It's far too simple to put this solely in a box of addiction to the highs and lows of a violent relationship as Pizzey determined.

For a start it's not really the answer to to why women behave in this way.

It's actually the pathway to the question as to what fuels this co-dependency?

In that sense I don't think she was wrong, in identifying that behaviour, but rather she stopped short of examining the reason why women exhibiting that behaviour did so (perhaps in viewing this through the filter of her own experience with her mother).

In fact it's very common for women to provoke their abuser, sometimes using violence and whilst for some, co-dependence is a factor for many the reason is actually about exercising the only level of control they have over the abuse - which is when it happens.

Victims are usually highly aware of their abusers moods and can stop the warning signs that they are getting ready to "blow" in advance.

They then face a choice. Wait hours or often days, treading on eggshells in hellish anticipation of what is to come or get it over with and release the tension.

Or the reasons can be more pragmatic.

It's Friday and if he hits me tonight I've got the weekend to recover before I have to do the school run or got to work. Or if he hits me when he comes home from work it's going to be easier on me than if I wait until he comes back pissed from the pub with his mates.

Or he's going to the football on Saturday and if they lose in the mood he's in I'm going to get truly battered, better he gets it out the way tonight and cross fingers that England win tomorrow.

When these women "choose" violence it's in the vast majority of cases not because they get a kick out of it. It's because they are holding on by their fingernails to the only level of influence they have over their abuser.

To not choose violence means leaving the relationship and the barriers/complexities of that for many victims (and why it often takes multiple attempts to do so) is a whole new and long post.

Anyway, I think Pizzey did good work and shouldn't be airbrushed from history. That imho she now holds views I don't agree with (or rather I think holds far too generalised and unsophisticated views on the behaviour of DV victims) doesn't change that.

And, indeed, one could argue that this requirement to be forensic when examining the possible outcomes and consequences of a lot of modern policy is a feature of this moment in time in terms of governance as a whole, across many areas of endeavour, and I'm uncomfortable about what that means in terms of transparency, democracy, and society as a whole.

So far I have tried to avoid that by crying "It's a service for women!" but that has stopped working in some areas. It does feel forensic...

Cross posted with lots of people.

If you (general you) are going to put mothers and motherhood up on a pedestal, which a current thread is doing, the counter to that is abuse by a mother is worse.

Take it up in the relevant thread, then.

What you have said is sparking some thoughts in me, but they are nebulous at the moment. I'm having, for example, some vague thoughtforms about how forensic one needs to be when faced with real life material examples of the incursion of this ideology.

And, indeed, one could argue that this requirement to be forensic when examining the possible outcomes and consequences of a lot of modern policy is a feature of this moment in time in terms of governance as a whole, across many areas of endeavour, and I'm uncomfortable about what that means in terms of transparency, democracy, and society as a whole.

There was a film called Cathy Come Home around the same time. Erin Pizzey wrote a book called, I think, "Scream Quietly" . I was doing my safeguarding training around the same time and those two things are memorable. Also, the Maria Colwell report which was on our compulsory reading list.
Looking back it was absolutely horrific. I don't think things are much better today tbh.

@Packingsoapandwater, that was beautifully articulated. Thank you.

Hardly surprising when you consider just how few years ago marital rape was made a law! At least we can say 'it was last century' though!

Women from that time couldn't conceive that coercive control would ever be a crime.

I have no idea what post you are responding to. The whole of your previous post! The one about people always having choice, agency!

Yes. My aunt was returned to her registered keeper with a broken arm and missing teeth. She said nothing. At least once the policeman returning her had her toddler, complete with burn marks on his back, in his arms.

My cousin escaped when he was 16.

My aunt is still with her husband, both now in their 70s. Locked in mutual aggression, both incapable of changing.

Who, or what, do you believe is the cause of these changes in funding parameters? Ooh! That would be lobbying frome Stonewall and all the Stonewall Champions. The Lottery included

Someone or something must be introducing this gender ideology into funding conditions. Lots and lots of well meaning 'woke' individuals and organisations.

It takes hours to check for changes in funding parameters. It has taken months to learn a new funding lexicon. Identifying a need and how we can meet it is no longer good enough. We now have to meet needs in the right manner! It is infuriating.

If women left, the police used to find them and take them back to their abuser; and that also went for women who removed children who were being abused by the father.
Its easy to apply todays standards to the past along with todays expectations; but very unfair on the women who were in an impossible situation. Trying to understand what it was like for them is not excusing their behaviour.

I am old enough to remember the documentary being aired. If I recall it was called “Scream quietly or the neighbours will hear” . I also remember that it was shown on Dutch tv and the tv station switchboard went crazy with the calls. All saying, “why are you showing UK women being beaten, there are Dutchwomen in the same situation.” ErinPizzey unlocked the proverbial can of worms, dv was the big secret every country ignored.

Oh! That would be a no then!

@KimikosNightmare it's not as black and white as that. People are fallible, led by their own fears etc. Males and females alike are, in part, a product of their environment.

Seeking to understand that isn't excusing it. It is, however, one step towards understanding it, to being able to counter it.

Forgive me for butting in here but this is a moment in history I remember and tell my kids and their generation about.
My mum told us how (after we all saw Erin Pizzey's work reported on) she was for the first time able to say to a woman in her community that this lady didn't have to put up with her husband hitting her.

It's so sad to think that prior there was just a sort of group disgust but no practical recourse if as usual there were no parents able to take the women and children in.

Someone or something must be introducing this gender ideology into funding conditions.