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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A trans-Identified BDSM fan/gun nut is now a senior leader at Girlguiding

611 replies

Scraggythang · 23/11/2021 10:59

Via Glinner’s sub stack. Sorry if this has already been posted!

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/wtf-are-girlguiding-thinking

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FindTheTruth · 25/11/2021 07:50

yes you're right @averylongtimeago

averylongtimeago · 25/11/2021 07:45

@FindTheTruth Much as I don't like what this represents, that particular photo doesn't show a guide uniform.
Monica is a bus driver- that looks more like a work uniform if you zoom in on the logo.

LolaLouLou · 25/11/2021 07:06

The 160 odd page DFE document 'keeping children safe in education' does not contain a requirement to do SM checks during a recruitment process under its safer recruitment section.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/keeping-children-safe-in-education--2

Neither does the charity commission, which girl guides are governed by.

www.gov.uk/guidance/safeguarding-duties-for-charity-trustees

NSPCC also used to have guidance on their website and it ha s either disappeared or I can't find it. They do have safer recruitment online learning and I would hazard an educated guess that it doesn't include doing SM searches during a recruitment process.

I am not saying that this is right or wrong, I am just saying that it is the guidance that organisations such as GGs follow.

The argument that those arguing against usungvSM checks as part of safer recruitment, is that the lack of boundaries should have been picked up in interview. We will never know how the interview was conducted because it is internal.

I keep my own SM fairly locked down, but I think checking SM could become a really tricky part of the formal safer recruitment process with grey areas, I.e what is hateful and what isn't?

Clearly a person holding a gun in a girl guides uniform is not a grey area.

FindTheTruth · 25/11/2021 06:14

Holding a gun in guiding uniform

A trans-Identified BDSM fan/gun nut is now a senior leader at Girlguiding
FindTheTruth · 25/11/2021 05:00

Words matter: The press must stop misreporting a person’s sex
fairplayforwomen.com/stop-misreporting-sex/

Taking stock of complaints to IPSO about inaccurate reporting of sex
Comms between FPFW and IPSO
fairplayforwomen.com/ipso_complaints/

Inaccurate reporting of sex and gender identity by the press: IPSO must improve its transgender guidance
fairplayforwomen.com/ipso/

submission: Editors code consultation
UK Equality law prohibits unfair discrimination on the grounds of both sex and selfdeclared gender identity. However, sometimes these two rights conflict so the law sets out circumstances where a person's sex is considered uniquely relevant and important. It is reasonable to expect IPSO to apply the same principles when making judgements about the accuracy of press reporting regarding sex or self-declared gender identity.
(See 8.0 Appendix 1 for a summary of UK Equality law).
fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Fair-Play-For-Women-Submission-to-Editors-Code-Consultation-270320.pdf

SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit · 25/11/2021 03:58

@EndoplasmicReticulum

I suspect there are guidelines somewhere that tells them they can't.
Yep. www.ipso.co.uk/member-publishers/guidance-for-journalists-and-editors/transgender-guidance/
EndoplasmicReticulum · 24/11/2021 19:35

I suspect there are guidelines somewhere that tells them they can't.

readytoretire · 24/11/2021 19:15

There were pictures on the sun article so it was probably obvious. However I just think the reporting was disingenuous. Essentially the story wasnt "transwoman guide leader posts inappropriate content on social media". It was "woman guide leader posts inappropriate content on social media". I think its misleading in the same way that not recording sex properly on surveys etc risk ending up with very misleading data such as it suddenly looking like more women are committing violent offences. It was highly relevant to this article that the person involved was a trans woman so why didn't they feel they could say so.

Clymene · 24/11/2021 18:58

I find it absolutely mind boggling that an organisation which has a Code of Conduct that explicitly states that volunteers' social media shouldn't bring GG into disrepute doesn't do a cursory check of volunteers' social media.

thecritic.co.uk/jeepers-creepers/

RepentMotherfucker · 24/11/2021 18:48

Also does that person look like the sort of person you would have no concerns about if you volunteered alongside them? I don't believe that no-one knew about these photos. I think everyone did know they couldn't say/think anything about that person because 'transphobia'.

Amazing for safeguarding Hmm

LolaLouLou · 24/11/2021 18:44

Regarding employment checks. I agree with TheBeardedVulture, under safer recruitment guidelines there is no requirement to check SM.

From memory, safer recruitment guidelines became more stringent after the terrible Soham murders and SM was in its infacy.

I would say that interviewing is also part of the safer recruitment questions and interviews should ask specific interview questions regarding safeguarding.

I am not commenting on this case but broadly speaking that is why it is so important for organisations to have a safeguarding culture where individuals can express safeguarding concerns following an interview, during probation etc.

RedCarpetRebellion · 24/11/2021 18:39

@TheBeardedVulture

I’m a volunteer at Brownies and I also have some knowledge about screening people’s social media footprint from an employment perspective.

Basically if you want a proper check run on someone’s social media you’d need to pay for a professional company who specifically offer this service to do it. This will cost £x per check and will only check publicly available social media on the day the check is run. GG don’t have the resources or money to do this for all their volunteers and they aren’t legally obliged to do so (unlike DBS checks).

Also DBS will only flag up crimes and relevant information held by the police. If someone hasn’t committed an offence (or they’ve never been caught) it will not return a result.

This persons social media on two platforms were public until earlier today. Many of us here have checked and found these pics almost instantly. That’s not a specialist expensive service. They also come up if the persons name is googled.

If MN posters can do this and scroll through a few old posts to find this in what way do you think GG can’t?

Clymene · 24/11/2021 18:36

@Artichokeleaves

When a basic google however will turn up highly questionable pictures, it's the kind of finding any parent or service user may find looking up the person they are putting trust in. Not doing that basic check is a bit daft to put it mildly.
Because I'm that sort of parent I looked up all the leaders I didn't already know at my kids' scout group. I do my own due diligence with people who are looking after my children if they're not at school.

I found all this person's profiles in seconds, even though they're not in the name they currently use.

Incidentally, Monica features in a HuffPo article from earlier this year about women on the front line.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/survivors-women-on-covid-front-lineukk_603e5bfac5b68297150372d2

Monica was a scout leader in March and is mother to two apparently.

Artichokeleaves · 24/11/2021 18:10

When a basic google however will turn up highly questionable pictures, it's the kind of finding any parent or service user may find looking up the person they are putting trust in. Not doing that basic check is a bit daft to put it mildly.

TheBeardedVulture · 24/11/2021 18:07

I’m a volunteer at Brownies and I also have some knowledge about screening people’s social media footprint from an employment perspective.

Basically if you want a proper check run on someone’s social media you’d need to pay for a professional company who specifically offer this service to do it. This will cost £x per check and will only check publicly available social media on the day the check is run. GG don’t have the resources or money to do this for all their volunteers and they aren’t legally obliged to do so (unlike DBS checks).

Also DBS will only flag up crimes and relevant information held by the police. If someone hasn’t committed an offence (or they’ve never been caught) it will not return a result.

Scraggythang · 24/11/2021 17:25

@KimikosNightmare I thought so. I think the majority of the commenters, if not all, knew precisely what was going.

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KimikosNightmare · 24/11/2021 17:03

@Scraggythang

I thought the beginning of the daily Mail specified the trans identity?
The headline does and the body of the article referred to "trans woman".
Scraggythang · 24/11/2021 16:52

I thought the beginning of the daily Mail specified the trans identity?

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FolornLawn · 24/11/2021 16:42

I can't work out the setting in those photos posted by @averylongtimeago. Is it a bathroom? A spa?

KimikosNightmare · 24/11/2021 16:41

@TurquoiseBaubles

The comments on the DM article show that the majority of commenters have no idea that this is a male person.
Where do you get that idea from. There is one poster who referred to "she" and one poster who said something along the lines of "let the poor woman alone"

The responses to the latter show the readers fully understand what is going on.

The rest of the comments don't refer to the person's sex. They don't need to. The Daily Mail readers aren't stupid. The article and photos are clear.

One of the responses to the "leave her alone" comment made the very valid point that a man who "identified as a man" or a woman who "identified as a woman" would get hauled over the coals for this so why defend this person?.

In one sense it doesn't actually matter what sex or gender this person is- the behaviour is unacceptable.

Leafstamp · 24/11/2021 16:36

@EndoplasmicReticulum

Readytoretire are there photographs with the Sun report?
Yes there are - 5 photos the same as the ones in the DM article pretty much.

I've also just scanned The Sun Twitter page and they don't seem to have posted the article there.

allmywhat · 24/11/2021 16:35

@TurquoiseBaubles

The comments on the DM article show that the majority of commenters have no idea that this is a male person.
I checked and I didn't see that! Most comments are just some variation on WTF. A few people used female pronouns but then so did the article. One comment referred to the subject of the article as a "woman" but that was from an angry TRA, and it had thousands of downvotes.
teawamutu · 24/11/2021 16:28

@TurquoiseBaubles

The comments on the DM article show that the majority of commenters have no idea that this is a male person.
Huh? They have eyes, surely?
TurquoiseBaubles · 24/11/2021 15:06

The comments on the DM article show that the majority of commenters have no idea that this is a male person.

TedImgoingmad · 24/11/2021 14:52

@readytoretire

So the Sun has now covered this story but has referred to the subject throughout as she/her with no reference at all to transgender. So as far as anyone reading this is concerned this is a woman guide leader behaving completely inappropriately.
Well if it was a woman of the XX variety, she'd be crucified. So, if TWAW, they can put up with what we have to put up with. As opposed to the inevitable claim of phobia that will be used to defend this person doing something no biological woman would get away with.
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