Trans ideology and mental health

Just want to say I feel very similar

@Franca123 I’m not sure, I have read this a lot on MN, though my other post which also mentions agp she writes daringly seems to still be standing so maybe this one was just a bit more robustly voiced!

I actually dngaf what people want to do within their own homes/spaces/relationships between consenting adults as long as people/boundaries are respected and maintained. However that’s not what’s happening, it’s not enough for TRAs, and there are too many extremely troubling examples of female/lesbian/single space sexes and boundaries being eroded, and the absolute worst case scenarios for women and girls playing out as a result.

Also there is just so much hatred underpinning all this (from TRAs), that at the worst points I start to believe it’s a cult of pure misogyny, hell bent on removing women’s identities, rights and opportunities, safety and boundaries, bodily and sexual autonomy, agency and power, our children, grandchildren, our futures.

The problem is that it’s hard to shut out this stuff, once you know about it. But I would rather know, and be trying to stop it, however stressful it is.

I don’t let the genderists set the terms of the debate.

TWAW? Sure, that’s fine. But you’ve just created a difference between being female and being a woman, so now it’s reasonable to say let’s separate what is needed by women from what is needed by female people, right?

Oh, it’s really hard to define what a female person actually is because of [list of very rare exceptions]? Yes you are right. But for the vast majority of humans it isn’t hard at all, so I’m fine if we start with a definition that works for all the female people who aren’t exceptions and then deal with exceptions case by case.

It’s really bad to restrict people’s identities based on their sex? Yes you are so right! That’s why we need to properly separate sex and gender rather than trying to use the same words for both and sort of smooshing gender identities on top of old fashioned sex classes. Let’s let sex be sex and think about gender as something separate that deserves support from the ground up.

And so on.

I had a really good think about what I know, what I believe, and my values (which incidentally include believing that gender fluidity, glittery rainbow parties, kink acceptance for adults and the whole alphabet pinata are totally fine and in many ways bloody wonderful as long as female people and our need for single sex support, existence, voices and provisions are accepted as valid and reasonable as things entirely separate to and having no impact on anyone’s identity) so I know what I believe and why.

I’m still socially left wing, I’m not secretly scared of or threatened by trans people, I just want to find a way we can all fit together with no one including female people being unsafe, marginalised or having to adopt narratives about themselves they know not to be true for the sake of social conformity.

And that gives me solid ground to stand on instead of being buffetted by whichever willothewhisp the genderists are chasing today.

I have really tried not to come to this conclusion but I am starting to feel as if the way I feel about these issues has changed permanently the way I feel about some family members. I won't go into it all, and I am very conflicted because back-seat parenting is stupid and offensive, but basically I think a young person in my extended family has been badly let down because of bad luck timing in the cultural moment that coincided with her tendency towards certain MH difficulties - and what I am struggling not to see as, but do regrettably and regretfully see as, weakness in how she was taken care of.

Covid drove wedges between my extended family and I took advantage of it, to not to deal with things I didn't approve of and had no say over. There are other reasons that are closer to home why not being very close to my extended family felt like a good idea, and I've had some really productive times. But I'm sad now thinking about how I can never go home, I suppose. I don't feel that they are my family

Are you not allowed to mention AGP?

Hey @IamAporcupine

Pretty sure it’s because I referenced THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE NAMED (three letter term) that I thought we were free to discuss here as a general, non person specific topic. BUT apparently we have to pretend it doesn’t exist while PEOPLE upload videos of themselves masturbating in toilets and changing rooms on social media because that’s FINE AND NOT AT ALL CONCERNING #bekind

How are you feeling today? Hope you’re good :)

I think it's really scary and upsetting when you realise how deeply society doesn't respect or value women. This issue brings it into stark relief and it's not easy to hold that in your head from day to day. I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

This is so true.

I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head.

My DPs little sister is a lovely girl. She is so kind and caring and genuinely wants the best for everyone. However she is the biggest advocate of TWAW you could meet - not in a nasty abusive TRA way. But in a really deep down heartfelt way where the injustice of hearing someone saying TWarentW brings her close to tears.

Yet at that same time I have never met a young woman so terrified of men. She is a lesbian and lives with her female partner. She recalls the times she has felt unsafe and threatened by a man walking behind her, men in bars and in a recent house purchase their number one consideration was an upper floor flat instead of a house for the added security against possible intruders.

Deep down I know she knows theres a difference between men and women. Not just physically (obviously as a lesbian) but psychologically in who is most likely to represent a real life threat to her whether thats through sexual violence or aggression.

Its something I think about often because in the same way this topic is mentally damaging to all of us women who cant believe this is the 'reality' of our world now; I worry about the MH problems and mental pain that will arise for the 'other side' when this all goes back to normal.

Having been through the pain myself of feeling like the status quo is polar opposite to what I grew up to believe was objective truth. My DPs poor sister, and many others including children who were taught they could change sex and that TWAW/TMAM - will feel this same pain and same mental disorientation.

It didn't have to be like this and it really does break my heart the mess that has been created. None of this has been a kindness to anyone.

I'm from Australia and usually interact on the Australian babycenter group however the contempt some of the women on that site show for women when making any mention of the distinction between sex and gender is just profoundly saddening. I dont know if i can use that site and spend more time here, although this is my first comment!

Women have lost so much class consciousness because of this social construction being confused with sex. It really effects me mentally as someone who is capable of recognising the distinction and knowing that women's rights and gains have been fought and won on the basis of our sex. Its a huge despair when we see women ready to throw this away.

I think it's really scary and upsetting when you realise how deeply society doesn't respect or value women. This issue brings it into stark relief and it's not easy to hold that in your head from day to day. I think it's one of the main reasons so many women support trans ideology - if they were to think it through and recognise the inherent misogyny, it would be too difficult for them to live with.

My only advice is to find a tribe of people who think and feel the same way as you do - even if that is just online - and use it as a regular antidote to all the be-kind gaslighting out there. And know we'll beat this - because as Helen Joyce says, we have to.

The only difference between you and your 'average bloke down the pub who thinks its bloody barmy' - is that you know about the day in, day out insanity of the back and forth of this battle.

YY.

I had a meeting earlier with someone I don't know but am working with, who I suspect was either FTM or non binary and I was constantly on edge, about what I said, what my unwoke colleagues said, my facial expressions. I don't know this, and she was really nice and if I knew I just would have avoided pronouns at all, but this is how this ideology is pernicious.

My job had training- we had Alok come to talk to us via zoom.^^

Goodness

As someone who previously had a mental health breakdown triggered by activism in this area - my advice is don't torture yourself with this.

The more you look into it, the more batshit, frustrating & disorientating it becomes. This topic can literally break your brain.

The only difference between you and your 'average bloke down the pub who thinks its bloody barmy' - is that you know about the day in, day out insanity of the back and forth of this battle.

As much as its important for the daily journey of this issue to be documented somewhere (and it is being recorded online here and in other places by multiple contributors); you as an individual do not to turn your brain into a personal catalogue of the whole thing.

All you need to do is decide your view and your boundaries. If you want to you can express that in a way is that you feel safe and comfortable -
Whether thats in private at the ballot box, anonymously on here, between close friends or family at the dinner table, or more openly in an active campaigning role. Each and everyone of these outlets are meaningful and you dont have to do anything at all if you feel its going to scare or stress you out and severely affect you in a negative way! Take time out if you need to. Regroup and recentre.

Theres an existential tag team of millions of us. The back and forth will continue; but unfortunately I think thats just going to be part of this journey. Sadly it seems the leaders that be have no foresight and the shit will have to hit the fan to be able to prove that we were right when we said this is a harmful ideology. That obviously is no consolation to the numerous individuals who become collateral damage - whether thats trans children who were told they could change sex or women raped in a prison. Its heartbreaking - but you didn't cause this. Its not your fault and its not your job to undo this.

Look after yourself first and foremost. This will end eventually

That post is from 2014. Seeing how fast these tunes change, I wouldn't pay it any heed.

Hi OP, like you I found echoes of the rhetoric of this ideology in memories of gaslighting and manipulation I experienced within an abusive relationship. I swore to myself back then I would never allow someone to paint me a false reality and bully me into agreeing with it ever again. I then found around the start of lockdown that two close family members are embedded in this ideology (so much so and so out of character for them it seems to be a cult). So there has been personal loss on top. Luckily, when things got really bad I found a counsellor and she is great, totally gets it and tellingly, I am not her only client in this position or worries about loved ones. I don’t see her often, but she helps me come to terms with the fact I cannot help them or save them, I have to look after myself and the relationship I had with them has possibly changed for ever. This place and the many wonderful people in our counter-movement give me hope and I do a bit of gardening for all the claims and challenges and appeals that come along. I haven’t been to any in person events yet but most of them are shown online now so I watch when I’m feeling up to it. The wider media finally seems to have found some courage and things are looking up.

I feel the same way OP. I recommend trying to get to some real life events and meet people who get it. That has made a real difference to my mental health. I talk about it with many other people and while they don't think i'm evil, they don't really understand because they don't know the extent of what is going on.

Also, some of the really crazy online TRAs are really much less scary in reality - they're just kids. I was surprised when I saw the protests outside some of the meetings by how non-scary they were.

What makes me feel very frightened is knowing the human mind is fragile at the best of times and all this way of speaking - exemplified by the self-obsessed writer of what you posted- children being told about different identities etc is exactly what will make them grow up to have vulnerable mental health.

I just heard a news reader refer to Sam Smith as ‘they’ on National Television. There doesn’t seem to be much hope.

My job had training- we had Alok come to talk to us via zoom. He spent about 15 minutes on his opening statement complaining about how unfair it was when he was a teenager being harassed in the street for being ‘gender non-conforming’, how hard it was for him and how he had suffered. I wept silent tears as I remembered being sexually harassed in the street from the age of 11. I was so angry, he was so ignorant. If he changed his outfit he could have stopped it all. I couldn’t.

It is completely mad op I totally get where you are coming from. Plus maddening as its so blatantly unfair to women (ie sports) and yet the sporting bodies seem to give no shits. Imagine if it affecting men's sports how quickly it would all be sorted. But no. So to be a woman watching it all can feel like drowning in a sea of nonsense. I also recommend stepping away from time to time to reconnect with reality and calming things like nature. Because in 100 years no matter what happens it won't matter to us one iota.