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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Adults are wrong to criticise ‘woke’ children, says Benenden head

140 replies

Igneococcus · 22/11/2021 07:06

Has she been stonewalled?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c743ce4-4ae7-11ec-9bc6-5abf98655bc4?shareToken=126806d1cce5d3397e820e042ca98924

OP posts:
merrymouse · 22/11/2021 09:58

@Kikkomam

Oh here we go, stick the boot into private schools. Don't dress this up as feminism, please.
People aren’t sticking the boot in - private schools are fundamentally exclusive.
ArabellaScott · 22/11/2021 09:57

Of course she won't. Apart from a few hundred spluttering commenters who are probably well above the age when they'd have kids schools to worry about.

How ageist and unpleasant.

Shedmistress · 22/11/2021 09:57

@Kikkomam

Oh here we go, stick the boot into private schools. Don't dress this up as feminism, please.
You are the only person on here telling old women they are too spluttering to have an opinion.
Shedmistress · 22/11/2021 09:56

If have woke teens and like them you are more likely to be respectful of their (yes sometimes misguided) thoughts.

So you have to have a woke teen to be qualified to comment on this utter virtue signalling bullshit?

I have two non woke nieces, am I allowed to give a shiny shit about them or am I too old and spluttering to be allowed an opinion?

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:54

Oh here we go, stick the boot into private schools. Don't dress this up as feminism, please.

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:53

@Shedmistress

Apart from a few hundred spluttering commenters who are probably well above the age when they'd have kids schools to worry about.

Why is it not allowed for older women to care about younger ones? Or to have an opinion about things?

What is the criteria for being allowed to comment on this?

If have woke teens and like them you are more likely to be respectful of their (yes sometimes misguided) thoughts.
foxgoosefinch · 22/11/2021 09:52

@Fariha31

I really dont get why post people fall so hard for this shit? Its a total mystery to me.
Because then you can pretend to be “inclusive” despite charging a fee no normal person can afford Grin Pretend ethics. Get to feel good about being “socially aware”. Validate posh young girls’ sense of their own specialness.

While everyone conveniently forgets about all the other stuff you aren’t so progressive on (only the other day, a friend was telling me about the extensive racist bullying and singling out, by teachers as well as by other pupils, that she experienced as a non-white pupil at one of these very expensive girls’ schools - it wasn’t Benenden but very similar.)

Shedmistress · 22/11/2021 09:50

Apart from a few hundred spluttering commenters who are probably well above the age when they'd have kids schools to worry about.

Why is it not allowed for older women to care about younger ones? Or to have an opinion about things?

What is the criteria for being allowed to comment on this?

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:47

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Why should you only be able to have a supportive environment for girls if you pay more than most people can afford? How is this progressive? It's all right Jack, is what it is. It's a problem for state schools, but that's too bad, it's not for us? Excellent.
I have never said its progressive. Of course state schools should have a supportive environment for girls, and I'm sure a lot of them try to. Single sex makes it easier.
Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:46

@fournonblondes

I would be taking my girls out of that school. I how she gets a backlash on this.
Of course she won't. Apart from a few hundred spluttering commenters who are probably well above the age when they'd have kids schools to worry about.
fournonblondes · 22/11/2021 09:45

I would be taking my girls out of that school. I how she gets a backlash on this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2021 09:44

Why should you only be able to have a supportive environment for girls if you pay more than most people can afford? How is this progressive? It's all right Jack, is what it is. It's a problem for state schools, but that's too bad, it's not for us? Excellent.

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:44

I agree there is pressure on teen girls. Funnily enough there seems less pressure re looks at our single sex private school than there was at the local state (dd wnet to both)

flopjustwantscoffee · 22/11/2021 09:44

Has anyone else read the "Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" by Muriel Spark? The girls in that story aren't really the ones with the problem...

merrymouse · 22/11/2021 09:43

And I’m not trying to make a dig at you kikkomam. Maybe your children go to a school that doesn’t have these problems.

However, I am making an observation about pressure on teenage girls. I am not being ‘mean’.

ArabellaScott · 22/11/2021 09:42

In Glasgow you could go to a school in Bearsden and a school in Easterhouse, just a couple of miles away as the crow flies. You could note the difference in height of children of the same age. You may also note various other differences, such as motor skills and co ordination, confidence, energy levels. You could also note the fabric of the respective buildings, the resources, the staffing levels, and a long list of other things.

These differences are apparent already in primary school age children, and they will break your heart.

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:42

@Terfasaurus

Benenden has always been achingly progressive,

Hopefully all the other girls’ heads attending the conference will disagree with her assessment that “parents need to be helped to understand”…

Private girls’ schools have been forced to think about this issue already and decide where they stand. Even the ones who pay lip service to it, won’t admit boys and if challenged, are always able to justify reasons for keeping them out even if it’s something as banal as “we don’t think Jazz is the right fit for our school”.

There probably will be a test case at some point somewhere but on the whole single sex private schools are the safest environment for girls in the current climate, which is an outrageous state of affairs.

Quite.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2021 09:41

Perhaps ask your local state secondary what their polices are on transgender inclusion, I doubt you'll be very happy about those either.

How is that in any way the point? Confused

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:41

@ArabellaScott

I mean, if you've never gone hungry and you've never been poor you can end up having quite skewed priorities. You can lose yourself in a dream of abstract principles unrelated to NHS waiting lists, electricity bills, and zero hours contracts.

I don't think I realised this fully until in higher ed. Where people had genuinely never experienced the slightest glimmer of worry or doubt or hardship about their financial security, often for several generations. I wonder if it's a barrier that is even possible to cross, really. Poverty takes years and years to bake into you, as does privilege.

We should be doing far more to try and look hard at actual privilege, and forget about some of the confected hierarchies that don't really have the impact we are given to believe.

Plenty of kids at state school have never gone hungry or been poor btw
merrymouse · 22/11/2021 09:40

Not for the majority of girls at my dds high achieving single sex indie, no. Plenty aren't on the hockey team and there isn't a 'right' haircut

Good for you. I went to a single sex private school and I go to the alumnae events and receive the magazines. The pressure is huge. I would guess that some parents don’t think this is too harmful as long as it achieves the right results. I remember the eating disorders and breakdowns.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2021 09:40

I mean, if you've never gone hungry and you've never been poor you can end up having quite skewed priorities. You can lose yourself in a dream of abstract principles unrelated to NHS waiting lists, electricity bills, and zero hours contracts.

YY. It's very easy to make lofty pronouncements about being "inclusive" with other women's rights when you're never likely to end up in a refuge or women's prison, and have never wanted for anything.

Kikkomam · 22/11/2021 09:39

Oh, if you want a pop at private education then I can understand the motivation behind this thread more. Perhaps ask your local state secondary what their polices are on transgender inclusion, I doubt you'll be very happy about those either.

Fariha31 · 22/11/2021 09:39

'We should be doing far more to try and look hard at actual privilege, and forget about some of the confected hierarchies that don't really have the impact we are given to believe.'

God, this should be tatooed on to some people forheads imo.

merrymouse · 22/11/2021 09:37

@Kikkomam

Also equating teen girls being aware of social injustice with having the right haircut seems the antithesis of feminism to me.
No, there is pressure on girls to conform to beauty standards and put other’s needs before their own.

There is nothing new about this. Feminists have always talked about these issues.

Fariha31 · 22/11/2021 09:37

I go past a private school on my way to work on the bus, a popular one on the top of a hill. There are some of the students who get the bus. There was until recently a boy who got this bus, he was a strapping lad who always wore normal school uniform except for a school girls skirt, v short. I saw an interview with the head of this school recently, there was a pic of the head for the interview. The head seemed to be wearing what appeared to be more of less a grown up version of the school uniform (the boys version).
It gave me a very uncomfortable feeling.