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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

what will it mean to you if we lose the word "mother"

87 replies

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/11/2021 09:04

I am incandescent about the moves to make "mother" a gender neutral term, or to remove it entirely from documentation (see Nancy Kelly's comments on WH about Scottish Government)

My motherhood is not my identity or role - it grew INTO me like that fungus that grows on plant roots, which isn't a beautiful analogy.

My children grew in me, but, they also grew through me, like that fungus makes tiny roots that trail along the plant's in symbiosis - which is why when they were tiny my body responded to their needs before I did: my breasts leaked because my body heard their cry; I'd be aware of their sharp intake of breath and be sprinting to them before their scream.

It seems that this means I will forevermore only ever be as happy as my least happy child.

They left cells behind like a weird echo of when they were gestating, I am not aware of those cells but I do rather like that I have some tiny Y chromosomes floating around in my system because I have sons.

Before they were born I learned which was energetic, which was chill and which had terrible issues with hiccups - I "knew" their nature before anyone else could.

My kids are grown now and I STILL note "baby's kicking" before I realise it's a fart.

I loved them in a way that was different and animal. They are grown now and I miss them dreadfully. My job was to make them not need me and that is a painful success. They know they have a safe place to fall, that is what I have given them, it did not happen by accident, and that is really all any child needs, no matter how old they are.

Being their mother means I am loved in return - in a way that is never replicable by any other person.

I understand that some women do not wish children and some women are devastated to not have children. Me having mine is unremarkable and ordinary - at the same time as being personally spectacular and extraordinary.

Being a mother has become a short cut to building a relationship with other women who have children, or who would have loved to have children, or who have lost children. We understand something about each other that is above age, culture, language.

"Mother" is not a word, it's not an identity, it cannot be stolen and I will not allow it to be taken from me.

I fucking earned it.

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merrymouse · 23/11/2021 07:35

I think what she means is that we can use the word ‘mother’ to suggest a sexist stereotype that anyone might claim. We can’t use a noun which might recognise the bloody, messy reality of being a female mammal, even in a maternity policy.

Childrenofthestones · 23/11/2021 07:32

It will be interesting when they come up against the commercial world with a lot invested in the word Mother. Some how I can't see millions of cards with "Happy Birthing Parent Day" being big sellers with most people. Perhaps the activists will choose their battle and give this one a swerve.

macj1 · 22/11/2021 19:11

Also here's the head of Stonewall claiming that they didn't mean to erase the word 'mother'....
lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/11/jonny-best-on-nancy-kelleys-womans-hour-interview-barnett-zeroed-in-on-a-series-of-salient-issues-and-kelley-rarely-had-any-straight-answers-to-offer-sometimes-the-more/
Could also be called Stonewalling....

macj1 · 22/11/2021 19:08

Beautifully put, thank you. The moment I became a mother, I felt as if I had passed through a portal from living as a teenager to living as an adult - from living in emotional black and white to living in full colour. When this is sad chapter is over, one of the greatest losses will be for those children whose medical treatment resulted in lifelong infertility, that they can never have the faintest idea of what this feels like.

To be a mother - to become a mother - has been the purest joy and the greatest achievement.

The fact that they seek to delete this word and find it 'offensive' to their ideology says all we need to know about them.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/11/2021 18:49

I do see that, Kimiko and, I am aware that not all women feel what I do. That is not a criticism.

You have made me realise that I see "mothering" as a verb which, for me, is filtered through the chronic and serious illness of one of our children. I never expected to see him as a man, let alone as a perfectly ordinary man.

So, yes, you make an important point. My personal circumstances are what make me so angry about the influence of Stonewall. My mothering was desperate, literally desperate, too many times to think about. Indeed, I can't think about it, am quite unable to reflect on it all and this is not at all unusual amongst mothers who have fear for the lives of their kids.

Also, clearly, not every woman who has/had a very unwell child is left with a need to growl about semantics of language.

The medics kept my son alive and I will never be able to express my [insert usual gratitudes and platitudes about the wonder of the NHS here]...but, it was my bosom and my lost sleep and my finding more rope when I thought I was at the end of it, that he needed.

You've got me thinking. I am angry, but you have made me realise that I am also projecting.

Regardless, I'm deadly serious about the civil disobedience outside Holyrood because I am prepared to be arrested in order to keep the word "mother". It is mine. I want it. I need it because my son needed me and only me and it was MY ability to provide what he needed which came at a price. And that has a value and a worth and has defined me and I am not giving up my word which denotes my privilege and my sacrifice. I am not alone in that. And good grief, how I'd like a chance to wail about it.

OP posts:
KimikosNightmare · 22/11/2021 18:11

@Prater

Ok, all those things are wrong of course and shouldn't be happening.

But I STILL think saying mother will disappear from common language is overstating.

It won't, it's too powerful.

It shouldn't disappear from official language either and I will fight that.

I'm not disagreeing that language matters I'm just saying I don't think mother will disappear.

If you don't agree then fair enough but you won't convince me otherwise on this, my mind is made up.

It's an agree to disagree situation.

I agree with you. I don't think the word will disappear. However I am female and a mother and I'm clearly "mothering" wrong. Most of this doesn't resonate with me. I love my son but my whole identity, inasmuch as that is a concept I think about,is definitely not tied up with being a mother or being in a constant state of fear.
Slythermum · 22/11/2021 18:06

@Artichokeleaves

I won't be losing it. I and many others will just not enable this. It will take full participation to permit it, it takes agreement and co operation.

There has been a lot, people have been very generous about being willing to bend to pronoun choices and all sorts of new language and care to try and help people in this situation. We've now hit the point where good will is beginning to run out, there is no reciprocation, and it is very clear that some people get to say 'my language choices really matter to me' but others get told to shut up, put up and no one cares how their language choices matter.

That is not inclusion. It's not a reciprocal or even basically equal relationship. And sadly once people get tired of the take take take without give and equal interest in other people's feelings and needs and inclusion, the answer will start to be no.

This raid on this word is silly. It's not going to happen, and I won't be participating in it. I won't accept it from any agency on their paperwork either.

Exactly this.
Prater · 22/11/2021 17:48

@LondonWolf

It's an agree to disagree situation.

In these days of “Any View That Differs From Mine Means You Are Evil!” I love an agree to disagree! Smile

Me too, thank you Smile
LondonWolf · 22/11/2021 17:46

It's an agree to disagree situation.

In these days of “Any View That Differs From Mine Means You Are Evil!” I love an agree to disagree! Smile

Prater · 22/11/2021 17:43

Ok, all those things are wrong of course and shouldn't be happening.

But I STILL think saying mother will disappear from common language is overstating.

It won't, it's too powerful.

It shouldn't disappear from official language either and I will fight that.

I'm not disagreeing that language matters I'm just saying I don't think mother will disappear.

If you don't agree then fair enough but you won't convince me otherwise on this, my mind is made up.

It's an agree to disagree situation.

LondonWolf · 22/11/2021 17:32

@Prater

I think you're wrong. If the word mother stops being used in official documentation, then I think it will eventually fall out of use among the population.

Of course language matters

But I don't think mother compares to the other words and terms you mentioned

It's too ingrained and deep in all of us.

I absolutely abhor the way mother is being erased in official language, it's hurtful and damaging , I just don't agree that it will fall out of use beyond that.

Did you ever imagine a time when sex offenders would claim they were women and be moved into woman’s prisons to share inescapable space with women who have been dreadfully abused their whole lives?

Did you ever think that men could insert themselves into woman’s sports and take their wins and accolades?

Did you ever imagine that a woman could be publicly threatened and drummed out of her employment at a university for holding views that only ten years ago we all agreed with and knew to be true?

Did you ever imagine we’d be giving medication to children that would leave them infertile and with no sexual function, who will never experience an orgasm?

This is one word. We will keep it alive as long as we are but as it is removed from official record and documentation the generations who come after will not see it as so important. In fifty years it will be gone.

MoonlightApple · 22/11/2021 17:14

It is a beautiful opening post OP. You should be proud to have written it Smile

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 22/11/2021 13:32

Well, it's certainly nice to have so many compliments about my off-the-cuff post, so I wish I'd spent longer on the grammar!

Agree with PPs, for the majority there is something visceral about motherhood.

I cannot speak to those of use who were bereaved of their babies without getting a lump in my throat - no matter whether the loss happened before the baby was born, or when mum is in her 90s and her baby was 75. The pain is universal and I think that is why, yes, once you are a mother you live with fear.

The fear of them meeting someone who harms them in any way, or of bad luck, or of their own naivety or stupidity causing a life changing incident certainly feels very real now they are navigating life as young adults.

I think that is why this erosion of "mother" in midwifery, health and legislation is bothering me so much. Most of the people who are trying to make "mother" gender neutral are not mothers or are not female, and so they don't understand why this word is fundamental to people like me.

My body never got back to my pre-baby body. How could it? It wasn't just my rib cage or feet that got bigger, my heart did too - it instantly developed infinite love. I am not the same as I was before I became a mother and I never will be. And I want that status because it is mine and became my identity. I am happy to respect other people's identity, which, to my mind, is rather easier to come by then mine as a mother which took quite a lot of effort, thank you.

I will fight, actually cause civil unrest outside Holyrood, if this nonsense progresses.

So, "no one is taking the word away from you" - yes, you are damn right about that. They won't be.

OP posts:
Datun · 22/11/2021 12:41

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I've just re-read your opening post. It truly is a work of wonder and beauty.

You have managed to encompass the spectrum of experience in a way that I've never read before.

Without cliche or sentiment, your own, incredibly personal and highly subjective experience has echoed and reverberated with everyone else's. That's a gift.

And if they want to erase the word mother, they'll have to get through us lot first.

KimikosNightmare · 22/11/2021 09:28

@flyingbuttress43

Beautifully put OP.

Once you are a mother you will be a mother forever.
And you will never be free from fear again.

Why will I never be free from fear again?
mellongoose · 22/11/2021 06:13

Lovely words OP. Apologies I haven't rtft.

I can't speak for every woman but when I yearned for a baby there was a physical ache in my ovaries. I actually referred to my ovary ache when joking with DH.

I have one surviving daughter and one daughter born too early whom we lost.

I felt them both kick.

I still get ovary ache occasionally, but at 46 that ship has sailed. I don't know how it feels for men, but can't believe that any physical ache is present, given their lack of ovaries.

I am a mother. I have earned my title and I will help to defend it. Please let this madness pass.

SpindlesWhorl · 22/11/2021 05:55

The term 'mother' matters hugely to me, and I have no words this early in the morning for how much I despise Stonewall for promulgating its eradication, and then lying about it.

Stonewall's influence, documents and edicts are still out there, embedded in so many policies and 'workplace index' submissions it'll take a long time to unpick it. Scotland seems lost.

As for the people in workplaces who've gone along with this vile crap - what were they thinking? It's been like one big Stanford experiment, with its de-individualising aims for all parties.

MiniTheMinx · 22/11/2021 05:48

I say this modern philosophy (post modernist clap trap) is backwards because its anti scientific. It creates in mind a desired object or outcome and brings into being phantom things that seem to eradicate facts.

MiniTheMinx · 22/11/2021 05:45

@MarshmallowSwede

It is the erasure of women in any and all aspects of society that I find disturbing.

Every living creature has a mother. Every single human who has ever existed was birthed by a woman.

The blatant disrespect of motherhood is in a way blasphemous. To erase and scrub out the very reason you exist is in itself so obscene and horrendous that I can only imagine that the end goal is to place women into an even lower category. “The unnecessary and unnamed “.

In history the enemies of the current ruler would sometimes be wiped from all records of history.

The only woman pharaoh of Egypt for example. Hatshepsut was erased from history.. a Damnatio memoriae was carried out against her. And the same is happening for women.

If you are unnamed and unnecessary then any and everything can be done to you. You don’t matter. If we think the abuse women and girls suffer is bad now, well you haven’t seen anything yet ladies!

It cannot and should not be allowed to happen.

"mother is God in the hearts and minds of little children"

Man has been up to this nonsense since man created in their minds a male creator. A male god. It is indeed blasphemous to eradicate mother. To eradicate a word is to eradicate the concept, and in our idealistic backwards and modernist philosophy to then eradicate the physical or scientific proof of such a thing. Language matters.

Delphinium20 · 22/11/2021 05:15

Here's a better image.

what will it mean to you if we lose the word "mother"
Delphinium20 · 22/11/2021 05:09

We all come from our mothers. It's why mother is an enduring word through time, culture and loss. I'm hopeful it won't go away, but it would be losing thousands and thousands of years of a shared language and understanding.

what will it mean to you if we lose the word "mother"
Beamur · 21/11/2021 20:23

I am a daughter and a mother. Everyone on the planet has a mother.
We may make accomodations to language to change with society but I really don't think this one will go away.
I for one will not stop using it.

Prater · 21/11/2021 20:18

@Clymene

I don't share your optimism.

It's already been banned by stonewall (and yes I know they've done a reverse ferret because Kelley denied it) and midwives and doulas are picking up on that.

When it becomes politically incorrect to use a term, people who are keen to show they're up with common parlance will stop using it.

But I think mother is far too potent.

I will have to agree to disagree with you on this, I just don't have the same fear that it will disappear from everyday language.

That doesn't mean I won't continue to object that it's not being used in other language and I will still be raising it and writing to organisations.

Clymene · 21/11/2021 20:09

I don't share your optimism.

It's already been banned by stonewall (and yes I know they've done a reverse ferret because Kelley denied it) and midwives and doulas are picking up on that.

When it becomes politically incorrect to use a term, people who are keen to show they're up with common parlance will stop using it.

Prater · 21/11/2021 19:17

I think you're wrong. If the word mother stops being used in official documentation, then I think it will eventually fall out of use among the population.

Of course language matters

But I don't think mother compares to the other words and terms you mentioned

It's too ingrained and deep in all of us.

I absolutely abhor the way mother is being erased in official language, it's hurtful and damaging , I just don't agree that it will fall out of use beyond that.