#MarchWithMidwives and the erasure of 'mothers' and 'women'

It would have been great to have the support of women on MN, what a powerhouse of strong minded, passionate, articulate women.

As it is, it's incredibly annoying and disappointing how it's panned out. We really had a chance to get our voices heard here.

Not only did you (general you not you personally) blow it, you doubled down and insulted and dismissed the very women and mothers you wanted unconditional support from.

Also proved, yet again, that kindness flows only one way and never in the direction of women.

Yes, when I read the pinned thread I did think "read the room"

I can only speak from a bit of a marketing background. Whether you want to 'sell a product/service' or 'rally a cry for support' you need to be able to identify your target audience and name them. If you go too niche or alternatively too wide as in 'people' you lose the audience and the message is ignored. Yes you may not always include everyone but you have to aim for the majority of your target audience - women and mothers.

Similarly there is a big difference between gender neutral language and gender inclusive. 'Birthing people' is dehumanising and confusing. Who exactly do they mean - a person who gives birth or someone who helps someone give birth? 'Pregnant women, transmen and non binary people' is far more inclusive.

It is odd isn't if moo that women will lose out more because women find it hard to support their erasure

Women lose either way

Chest feeding! The poor baby give it a bottle ffs

I'm a long time lurker on the feminism board (not brave enough to "come out" yet as it were, both on SM and in real life)
I'm furious at the erasure of women but I'm relatively new to the fight.

I've also been a midwife for 7 years. Things are dire at the moment. Staffing levels are so unsafe. I'm one of many off sick with stress/burnout which is obviously only making it worse for the midwives left on the ground but I physically and mentally couldn't take it any more.

If we had more midwives we'd be better able to provide the care that women and babies need. At the moment it just feels like fire fighting and the majority of us hate that we can't give each woman the time and support they want and deserve because we have up to 12 other women who need us right that minute as well. Inevitably a lot of women therefore end up with shitty experiences, feeling like they've not been listened to or supported, feeling traumatised and damaged physically and emotionally. It's just not acceptable.

It would have been great to have the support of women on MN, what a powerhouse of strong minded, passionate, articulate women.

As it is, it's incredibly annoying and disappointing how it's panned out. We really had a chance to get our voices heard here.

On the same note, I've recently hired a doula. I made sure the words 'women' and 'mother' were used on her website before paying the £xxxx amount. All good.

After paying, I received a lot of member only resources, and what do I find? A course on "Breast/Chest feeding"

FUCK SAKE.

This ^

There'd be two mums though - why only call one mum?
'' you're only mum if you're giving birth '' excludes the other, surely?
This way would include both as mum

Can't come up with an articulate argument for you, as I'm fucking raging about this, and especially the responses to women's concerns on the March with Midwives thread on here.

Yes, it's a strange, to say the least, tactic asking people to support your cause then insulting them, becoming defensive and refusing point blank to listen to them.

Yes lesbian couples as well only one would give birth

I'd have thought it'd also be inclusive to lesbian couples as well, if they're both mum, only one would actually be giving birth so it includes them too?
Also trans men.
I'd still be mum and in the so called traditional way too - including others as well doesn't affect me so can't get too worked up about it.

I hate it when couples announce “we are pregnant” no you are not, the woman is pregnant you are expecting a baby together.

One of the transmen who has given birth is Freddie McConnell. As he is a pet Guardian journalist quite keen on self-publicity I think he is worth the equivalent of about 500 pregnant women. Otherwise, I would bet the number of other transmen who have given birth has got to be well under 20 across the UK, but go on, prove me wrong!

Does anyone know how many trans men give birth each year? Do we have any data on it?

Can't be many.

Alienating all women who give birth for the sake of what could be a handful of people.

Has anyone asked trans men who have given birth if they object to gendered (ie correct) language being used. I can't imagine it's high up their list of priorities.

That looks good Kezia - thank you.

I am also very angry!

Hi. I know!! There is this amazing group of mostly midwives who are written some good stuff on this. www.facebook.com/WeAreWithWoman and they seem to be connected to this blog too about the same issue.
with-woman.org/2021/07/11/why-we-are-with-woman/

Refreshing to read!

@AnotherEmma omg, we actually could be!

Can't come up with an articulate argument for you, as I'm fucking raging about this, and especially the responses to women's concerns on the March with Midwives thread on here. Maybe the lack of mention of babies is because it's a non inclusive word (doesn't include puppies or kittens for example - yes, I know that's ridiculous, but so is the whole thing!) and they can't think of a mangled language alternative. Birthed living organism, maybe? Completely non emotive and neutral - would suit everyone, don't you reckon? Oh, well, not the MOTHERS and WOMEN, but then we don't count any more. Arrrrggggghhhhh!!!