#MarchWithMidwives and the erasure of 'mothers' and 'women'

The whole thing makes me furious. I gave feedback on being downgraded from a 'mother' to a 'birthing parent' part way through my antenatal course - told them it made me feel like no more than a brood mare and that I did not 'identify' as a 'birthing parent'.

I see some breastfeeding groups now talking about 'breastfeeding and chestfeeding'.

It is absurd. If a ftm transitioner has elected to have a double mastectomy (sorry, 'top surgery') and has no breasts, that person is unable to produce milk. That person can only feed via formula and so a breastfeeding group cannot be directly relevant to their experience. So why change the name of the group for their sake?

And if any ftm transitioners or female-bodied non-binary people* retain their breasts, undergo the exclusively female experiences of pregnancy and childbirth and choose to breastfeed their babies, why are we pretending that their breasts are called chests? It's nonsensical. (I would use stronger language about this, but fear my post would be deleted.)

*Funnily enough, there don't seem to be any male-bodied non-binary people giving birth.

As previously discussed, it is likely that this change of language has nothing to do with ftm transitioners (transmen) and far more to do with the feelings of some (not all) mtf transitioners (transwomen) who wish to de-couple the concept of woman from biology. Adult human females do not benefit from this change of language.

It is insidious, though. I'm currently trying to find a breast pump to buy. It's all very complex and the choices are overwhelming. I've read lots of articles and watched lots of videos on the subject. One article promised to help me identify the best breast pump for my needs - but then the opening paragraph talked about the specific needs of transgender people. What specific needs? A ftm transitioner seeking to express milk has exactly the same considerations as any other woman requiring a breast pump. An mtf transitioner seeking to express milk, which is apparently possible in some circumstances, is extremely morally dubious given the artificial hormones involved, and should not be encouraged (imho).

One company which is generally very good and refers unashamedly to women and mothers on its website still managed to put out an official video that referred to 'chestfeeders' alongside 'breastfeeders'.

As for midwives...

I received excellent care from my midwives when I gave birth recently. My hospital didn't use women-erasing language, for which I am grateful. I am genuinely saddened that the profession is going through a tough time. However, talking about 'birthing families' is not on.

You know how many 'birthing families' were allowed in the delivery suite at the height of COVID? - 0.

The only family member allowed in the delivery suite in June 2020 was the mother, the woman actually giving birth. Fathers, partners, older children - these members of the 'birthing family' were not allowed in.

How many male-bodied people have suffered a minor or major injury from giving birth to another human being? 0. How many male-bodied people have died from giving birth in the entirety of human history? 0.

Midwives' primary concern should be supporting women, the human females who are the only ones able to gestate and birth babies. The very name 'midwife' derives from the words 'mid' and 'wif' meaning 'with woman'.

Perhaps they should change their names to 'midbirthingfamilies' and be done with it. After all, if midwives can't stand up for mothers, why should mothers stand up for them?

ALL STATS BELOW ARE PURELY FICTIONAL, AND MEANT ONLY TO DEMONSTRATE A POINT. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THESE AS ACTUAL REAL WORLD STATISTICS

Let's take a sample group of 100 people

• 50 are male (henceforth referred to as men - adult human males as the group does not contain any children)
• 50 are female (henceforth referred to as women - adult human females as the group does not contain any children)
• Gender identity has not been recorded and is irrelevant to the study

Of the 50 women let's say 1 in 10 will die in child birth. If we changed the wording to people we can no longer accurately say 1 in 10 will die, this would now be 1 in 20. Let's take it further and base policy and allocation of funds on the collected statistics. When it comes to assigning funding to maternity services, which statistic do you think is 1) more accurate of the group using and affected by the service 2) most likely to result in funding the service? If we cannot define the group affected accurately and succinctly, everyone using the service regardless of how they identify will suffer.

So the word woman/women needs to be kept biologically accurate. No children were included in the group, so people wouldn't be an accurate term. As the issue doesn't affect men (remember it's only adult human males in that group) it's wrong to collect data based on 'people'.

The vigils are important. The message should be powerful.

Imagine how much more powerful they would be if the powers that be hadn’t alienated so many women with language that is so inclusive it is exclusive.

Oh, and just in case you still don't think it's men pushing this, show me all the campaigns to have the word man removed.

All the charities talking about prostate havers, penis owners, ejaculators?

All the women clamouring to get into men's prisons, changing rooms, sports?

And what rights is the use of the word woman and mother accurately taking away from trans people?

The right to have their trans identity acknowledged instead of insisting that that they're a woman?
They'd still get to be called their preferred term and be included, and I'd still be called and be a mother.
I wouldn't suddenly stop being called a mother just because someone else is referred to by their preferred term.

Datun, phonetica, YNK, SheldonesquetheBstard

I agree with everything you have written, but especially this from Datun sums up my feelings:

I'll never, ever forget, nor forgive, women who throw their entire sex under the fucking bus

The ones asking us to be kind are actually asking us to be blind to what is happening to women in their name.

Why are these organisations bowing to self ID like this when the law is specific about gender recognition certificates?
It's completely absurd that sex specific services like health services are erasing women when there is no law that makes them.

I don't know any woman who would be unkind to transwomen with a GRC, but self ID in a gender fluid framework? It's way too dangerous to contemplate.

And midwives and doulas fucking know this. They know it down to their soul.

I think the disconnect must come because they do not view men who say they are women as men. That's where the disconnect is.

They need to ask themselves why they don't. Really, really ask.

The thing is issues to do with maternity care and midwifery are overlooked and not valued precisely BECAUSE they effect women

Our rights are self fucking evidently being taken away. How else does one explain rapists in women's prisons and women having to compete against men in their own sport? I can't imagine why women would accept that they are bigoted for wanting a woman to handle their breasts during a mammogram.

Or, heaven fucking forbid, an entire parliament made up of men, half of whom say they're not.

I'll never, ever forget, nor forgive, women who throw their entire sex under the fucking bus

When I first saw the term "birthing body"

I first saw it when an article referred to "black birthing bodies" which is hideous.

All I can think is that some women have such internalised misogyny along with a 'be kind' narrative that they truly can't see it. It's weird how 'be kind' doesn't apply to other women who have a different point of view.

Like many women who have given birth, my experience of midwives has gone from the blissful to the downright should be struck off tomorrow.

I can't help feeling that the total lack of respect and care for so many women in labour and post-partum and the attitudes shown on this thread are connected.

thepiratequeen I've just checked mine, which is a good app by a famous menopause doctor - doesn't mention women at all. Skilfully avoids the word and there is the occasional "people".

I'm gutted.

When I first saw the term "birthing body" it sent a chill down my spine and made me think of the reproductive experiments conducted on Jewish and Roma women during the Holocaust. And of course the treatment of female slaves as brood mares by plantation owners. Incredibly dehumanising.

None of this benefits women.

The thing is, it's so bloody evident, I don't know how anyone could even think otherwise.

Me neither Datun, I give people the benefit of the doubt that they do actually possess a level of intelligence, reasoning and critical thinking skills and then they come out with trite nonsense such as this My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs

None of this benefits women.

The thing is, it's so bloody evident, I don't know how anyone could even think otherwise.

Your rights to a female only rape refuge, a female only homeless shelter, a female doing your mammogram, or your smear test, or competing on, or against, a female only team are all being taken away from you.

We already have MPs claiming they see nothing wrong with a parliament made up of 50% men, and 50% men who identify as women. Diversity box, ticked.

Honestly, just think for a second. Who do you think is benefiting from this?

Because it's sure as shit isn't women.

Perfectly put.

You can argue until the cows come home that it doesn't, but when convicted rapists are being given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence, you're on a hiding to nothing.

The word woman, like the word mother is already taken. They are not up for grabs by men.

The term mother has a legal status. It interacts with quite a few other laws including, I believe, the Children's Act. It is not a social definition. Neither is the word woman.

Your rights to a female only rape refuge, a female only homeless shelter, a female doing your mammogram, or your smear test, or competing on, or against, a female only team are all being taken away from you.

We already have MPs claiming they see nothing wrong with a parliament made up of 50% men, and 50% men who identify as women. Diversity box, ticked.

Honestly, just think for a second. Who do you think is benefiting from this?

Because it's sure as shit isn't women.

I find it as insulting to be called a ‘birthing person’ as I would be to be called a ‘n*er’. It doesn’t matter what other good you may do (and midwives do a lot of good) there is just no way I can get past such disrespect in order to support them.

Just to add to Datun's excellent post, the other group of men who have a vested interest in changing language around motherhood and giving birth are men who pay women to gestate and give birth to a child for them. They aren't keen on the word mother either.