Stonewall backtrack on removing ‘mother’ from policies

Leave the sinking ship, Nancy! I really can’t wait till Stonewall falls into oblivion. I supported them for years but they’re a total liability now. Nancy ‘they’re all Nazis’ Kelley has been the finishing touch to their insanity.

Well, this is embarrassing for stonewall and NK and good news for sanity. But - and it's a big but - many organisations have already made this change. The damage is done.

They open themselves to abuse, complaints, law suits the lot. And just when they expect the backing of the people who told them to do it, they are long gone, taking no responsibility whatsoever and now are back tracking on the advice.

Yes exactly - and the companies/gov departments are paying for this advice that's apparently out of date as soon as it is given.

It's like the Essex Uni thing where Stonewall advised them to ignore the EA2010 on the basis it's 'not fit for purpose' (the same advice they give to everyone) then when their client gets called out for acting illegally, Stonewall say "well, we're not lawyers, you shouldn't have listened to us, and if you did, that's on you".

And Nancy on Women's Hour - "mm, so...we're just talking, but no-one's really listening to us anyway so it doesn't matter whether we're talking bollocks, you see - I wish people would listen to us, but they don't". Erm, no, Nancy - we've all been listening and companies and public bodies have been falling over themselves to get a coveted place on your index for fear of being labelled transphobic as that's what you're telling the general public and companies' grad recruitment pools of uni students - you've been piling on massive pressure across the country through your private policy work and public nazi comments, so this idea that you're just a little office worker with no real voice is as nonsensical as your stance on gender.

I raise a glass to Emma Barnett as this is a direct result of her putting Nancy Kelley on the spot. The policy that they have unthinkingly mandated, and organisations have unthinkingly gone along with, proved to be impossible for her to justify in the cold light of day and Emma’s forensic questioning. And to the Nolan podcast as they got the evidence to help direct her questions.

Funny that it’s BBC staff after all who have made such a difference. I know they are building on the shoulders of giants.

I guess that is why they stuck to ‘no debate’ wasn’t it. Not only could they have their attempts at being seen as ‘not influential at all ‘ remain hidden, but when the CEO herself says stuff on national radio in an attempt to appear nuanced and not sinister, they will now get held to what she says!

I wonder what snide ‘sorry, not sorry’ tweet will go out today! I mean their form had been ‘we are only interested in protecting the most vulnerable minority’ so we don’t care if others are unhappy. Not going work today.

Popcorn at the ready!!

Any woman who finds the term mother offensive or triggering can avoid motherhood altogether.

have a look at the thread from midwives asking women to march for them this Sunday. The word mother only appears once in their posts, swiftly followed by birthing parent. Parent is used instead of mother

Shouldn't they call themselves "midspouses", then?

So disappointed by the midwives. I knew that most doulas have been captured by the ideology but it's sad to see midwives going the same way. Fortunately, the midwives I encountered during my pregnancy and birth were good and had not (yet?) departed from biological reality.

Well it'd as has been said isn't it.

Advice was given. Companies shit in aby staff who isn't lgbt . They become nothing more than validation tools who aren't allowed a single word to describe themselves.

They open themselves to abuse, complaints, law suits the lot. And just when they expect the backing of the people who told them to do it, they are long gone, taking no responsibility whatsoever and now are back tracking on the advice. Mate I could have told u that years ago.

Thank you for share token Igneococcus

By “historical” what they mean is “before Nancy’s car crash of an interview on Women’s Hour.”

Proof that their policies have nowt to do with inclusion or are necessary for improving things for LGB or indeed T people at work but are all about plucking stuff out of thin air in order to form an arbitrary scorecard. Are any of their DC suggestions/requirements actually independently assessed as being valuable or helpful? What else has been made up on the spot and is now set down in HR policies affecting millions of people?

Yep @EdgeOfACoin - have a look at the thread from midwives asking women to march for them this Sunday. The word mother only appears once in their posts, swiftly followed by birthing parent. Parent is used instead of mother.

Some of their Facebook posts leave the word mother out altogether.

We are literally being erased by the women whose job it is to support us. Mad.

Congratulations on your baby too

This also shows how unprepared Nancy Kelley was for the interview. Surely anyone with an ounce of brains would know the question would come up. I think she answered on the hop and said what was palatable and then some late night shredding had to take place.

We never said that. It’s not our policy. If it was, it was old. We love mothers.

The problem is, this practice has already taken hold.

I've recently had a baby and see this frequently. I've already mentioned a few times on this board that my antenatal class replaced the words 'mum' and 'mother' with 'birthing parent' on their literature when I was part way through the course.

Some (thankfully not all) breastfeeding cafés now advertise their services as being for 'breastfeeding and chestfeeding parents'.

Even 'breastfeeding parents' irritates me. Only one sort of parent breastfeeds. Mothers.

Fathers, partners etc. do not breastfeed.

American websites are entirely hopeless - I've lost count of the times I've read an otherwise sensible article about birth or breastfeeding from a reputable US organisation, only to find that the words 'woman' and 'mother' have been carefully removed from the text. Whenever I check, there is usually some indication that the article was updated in 2020 or 2021. UK websites are better, but for how long?

I'm glad Stonewall has changed its policy, but unfortunately I think some damage has already been done.

I guess if the Stonewall CEO denies that Stonewall aims for the removal of the word “mother” by saying So, the first thing to say is that we’re not interested in removing or erasing the word “mother” during a R4 Woman’s Hour interview, despite the Nolan podcast confirming that the Scottish Government was told to remove “mother” from its policies, then some pretty quick public backtracking is in order.

That article felt like gaslighting.

“That’s an old document”

Wonder if the TRAs will cancel Stonewall? 😀

I'm just glad that some Mumsnetters are archiving things, articles, screenshots because there will be a lot of "we/I never said this" going on in the next few years.

They're under an awful lot of pressure otherwise why would they abandon one of their sacred cows? I was amused by the fact that Kelley denies such a policy existed - there's a word for that

They can see which way the wind is blowing now and they don't like it.

Good.