Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

So, why couldn't a man who runs with blades compete against men running with two legs (who are often slower)?

Pistorius challenged this and won. He had to go through a serious process though to get the evidence together to prove he didn’t have an unfair advantage.

I've read the IOC statement. It's strong on the fact that there should be no discrimination. Obviously that's fine. I'm wondering why then there's an entire other Olympic Games for people with various "disabilities". So, why couldn't a man who runs with blades compete against men running with two legs (who are often slower)?

It'd be interesting to see a challenge on this front too.

Thanks signalbox, I subscribe to the podcast already, but hadn’t had time to listen yet- will do so this weekend. Ross and Mike are so good on this.

Sorry I see it’s already been posted.

podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9yc3MuYWNhc3QuY29tL3JlYWxzY2llbmNlb2ZzcG9ydA/episode/NjE5NTE4MWRjNzMyNTkwMDEyZDMxMmY3?hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwjSyrK_jKn0AhXDCewKHfBGAwAQjrkEegQIDhAH&ep=6

It’s a dereliction if duty that doesn’t help any group.

The issue won’t go away, but the next time it comes up every individual involved - athletes and administrators - will have to have the argument in public - again.

I really, really want to know the background on how this announcement came into being. Who was involved? How was the decision made?

The fastest way put off this is through "women's" beach volleyball.

I do hope there is someone, somewhere following the money because I suspect money has been the major influence in this decision.
There is no other rational explanation.

Follow the money. Obviously the IOC is getting desperate for new viewers, new income source, new men.

Those boycotts included/ were about men. War or hostile relationship, doping, racism etc. Men running countries. Mainly male sports bodies coaches acting on behalf men with power. Racism- famous images men.. Plenty on the way women activists were taken for granted etc.

I don't think there's any hope of boycotts on this. Generally sport has been and is for men. Tribal substitute for fighting.

Loads in public here let alone globally think women's sport is pointless and rubbish.

I don't see countries boycotting over this.

And of course the 'liberal' countries all support it, at govt etc level...

IOC new rules

Rule 5) no evidence of biological sex differences, “no presumption of advantage”: unscientific, heavily political and cowardly. Richard Budgett medical director knows that biological processes differentiate male and female for sport. It was the job of Richard Budgett and the IOC to not to allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups

Rule 6) the IOC is kicking this to the sports to decide.

6 Times the Olympics Were Boycotted
Disapproval over wars, invasions, apartheid and doping scandals have all prompted countries to pull out of the Games.
www.history.com/news/olympic-boycotts

Not a bold move but a massive cop out.

They were hoping to make the contraversial and widely reported issues around athletes with DSDs go away. Set T high, they are fine in women's sports, ok no more issues.

Didn't help.

So they just thought fuck this and walked.

IOC well known for massive sexism forever. So. Don't care. Stop asking. Fight amongst yourselves. Nothing to do with us.

I think it's a bold move, forget messing with hormones, anyone can compete in women's categories. Let it all blow up come to a head.

And the whole thing will very quickly go full circle and only actual women can compete.

Within their own org...

Obv one which is globally known and important and not just for sport, there's the whole put differences aside and let's do sport a universal thing as well. Watched my I assume billions?

But they've just chucked that all away because what they have said is IMPOSSIBLE.

Russia, USA China, North Korea, and of course every body from the whole rest of the world. All the running bodies chatting together to agree rules. Having obtained independent peer evaluated studies that they also all are happy to use?

I mean it's a fucking joke.

Default is no changes TWAW.

I can't see how any sport will globally agree all this stuff and commission share agree the studies to support.
And this has to be done for each event..eg 100m 200m 1000m 10000m. Etc.

I mean. Isn't it obvious it's just no way even slightly going to happen.

So default.. No restrictions.

It's just, not sure of words tbh!

IOC and Richard Budgett have redefined sex and politically erased women as a sex class

Imo for some recent posts.

Budgett has released totally ridiculous statements over last couple years. I have no doubt he is saying what told. Also will take the fall if it all changes. I'm sure he's very well paid for that.

Princess Anne as an old school royal will keep totally out of this.

Coe is bloke. Got lots of prestige fab career respected. Also remembered by those around in those days obviously as huge sports star.. Can't see him getting involved in this shitshow.

IOC handing off like this to the sports bodies is blatently impossible unworkable 'solutiom'. They have said fuck this. Nightmare.. And run away.

Hopeless.

With this move from them I can't even see how the Olympics can continue.. How the fuck are all the countries/ bodies all over the world going to get together and agree? No chance.

And without consistent agreed rules. Then there's no competition is there.

???

Senator Claire Chandler:

The IOC has formally declared that women’s sport is not a category for female athletes, it’s a category for anyone who believes it “aligns with their self-determined gender identity”.

That means taxpayers are at risk of pouring billions of dollars into a 2032 Olympic Games which encourages mediocre males to compete against the world’s best female athletes
www.facebook.com/SenatorChandler

Over 600 replies to this Facebook post 17 November, including some good ones

As Jane Clare Jones said (in that video in PP timestamp 55:16) a lobby group *"is just doing what a lobby group does which is lobby it's the job of institutions not to allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups"^

It was the job of Richard Budgett and the IOC to not to allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups

My sense is that Richard Budgett IOC medical director is ultimately responsible for erasing women's sports. Budgett lacks leadership in the face of lobby groups. Compare Richard Budgett to Greg Davies BBC Director General.

Lobby groups are going to lobby: that's their job

IOC as an institution and Richard Budgett IOC medical director had a duty to not allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups

As Bev Jackson said on LEADERSHIP:
"i think that we have to look in general at leadership and a profound lack of leadership and where does that come from. it comes from ignorance it comes from cowardice it comes from laziness. people who have not thought very long and deep about these issues will often say well that sounds a bit unpleasant it sounds a bit complicated let's leave it to the experts. and as i think most people in this room know the people who are self-appointed experts are not experts at all they are activists with a very specific agenda and if you leave it to these people to make decisions you do not end up with evidence based policy making and you go down a path which in some cases is extremely dangerous that is what we're here to discuss today now"
Conference

Richard Budgett demonstrates lack of leadership:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tokyo-olympics-threat-of-transgender-athletes-is-overstated-says-ioc-medical-director-nnft8q22v

"You have got to include all women if you possibly can," says the IOC's medical and science director, Dr. Richard Budgett:
www.attitude.co.uk/article/international-olympic-committee-medical-director-threat-of-trans-athletes-has-probably-been-overstated/25505/

They'll be seen as dirty and corrupt as FIFA and they deserve to be.