Therapist asking if I'm a man, woman or gender neutral.

[quote SaltyPepper]@merrymouse

Actually no it doesn’t. Groups or individuals literally push for changes on the basis that it reflects current usage - when it fact it reflects their current usage. There is no wide ranging survey of the way the general public uses the word which is then taken into account by the dictionary.
Meanings are purely pushed by academics and theorists and often don’t accurately reflect genuine usage of most people at all. The WHO is no different.

So again changing a dictionary definition when it’s a contested theory is a fleeting and pointless “victory” for either feminist leaning or trans theory leaning academics - neither of who’s definitions of sex/gender really have much to do with the wider public perception. What is hoped is that by changing the dictionary definition people minds will eventually change. This is a delusion which overestimates the value of such cheap trickery.[/quote]
No, you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a dictionary.

www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/how-does-a-word-get-into-the-dictionary

public.oed.com/how-words-enter-the-oed/

The question is important because it’s helping you identify and verbalise your feelings about your gender and how you identify yourself. This is all helpful to explore with your therapist. That is why the question is there . It’s not about how you answer it - it’s about what it brings up for you . Which is clearly a lot.
Feel the anger and work out where it should be directed. I don’t think you are angry with your therapist - but it might feel like that.

@merrymouse

Actually no it doesn’t. Groups or individuals literally push for changes on the basis that it reflects current usage - when it fact it reflects their current usage. There is no wide ranging survey of the way the general public uses the word which is then taken into account by the dictionary.
Meanings are purely pushed by academics and theorists and often don’t accurately reflect genuine usage of most people at all. The WHO is no different.

So again changing a dictionary definition when it’s a contested theory is a fleeting and pointless “victory” for either feminist leaning or trans theory leaning academics - neither of who’s definitions of sex/gender really have much to do with the wider public perception. What is hoped is that by changing the dictionary definition people minds will eventually change. This is a delusion which overestimates the value of such cheap trickery.

Forma like this used to be as anodyne as possible so as not to set off anyone's alarm bells, neurosis etc

Now it seems that this is no longer the case and forms are designed with alternative versions, let alone with reasons to collect specific data. Some questions are there merely to assuage the voices of the perma-insulted.

OP. Tell your therapist exactly what you said here. Ask them why that question exists... As in what basis acceptable under GDPR Regs that are collecting that data?

There has to be a reason for every scrap of data collected.

Just wanted to offer support to whatever you do OP.

The fact that someone thought it was appropriate to use ‘lol’ in their response to you has blown my mind. The implication that a womens response to their trauma as a result of rape is ‘lol’ is the lowest of low. Even for MN.

Remember OP - it is the therapist job to contain you. It is not your job to make her/him feel better, that’s why they have supervision. So please try not to tie yourself up in knots about how to say it. If they get it great if they don’t they may not be the right therapist for you. And that’s ok too.

Not a great first impression from a therapist

Haven’t explained

All kinds of groups protest and petition to change dictionary definitions these days.

That is not how a dictionary works. It reflects current usage.

This is the world health organisation defining gender:

www.who.int/health-topics/gender

You still have explained what you think gender neutral means in the context of sex.

Bloody ridiculous world we live in.

The rush to inclusivity has in some cases blurred the lines and seems to deny (however unintentionally) the fact that certain experiences amd traumas are inescapably pegged to someone's biological sex.

As mentioned, good idea to raise this with your therapist.

@beigebrownblue

All kinds of groups protest and petition to change dictionary definitions these days. One year the dictionary will follow the feminist theory sex/gender definitions, then it will follow the trans ones and so on. Claiming a dictionary definition as a true meaning is virtually meaningless today and its meaningless victory to get a meaning changed when no one really agrees on it anyway.

The last time I checked
'gender' in the dictionary referred to an expectation or a role.

So, there are all kinds of 'gender expectations' out there, positive and negative for all of us, regardless of how we define ourselves.

Surely the point is, that we, and this includes therapists but actually therapists in particular, should be concerned with opening up possibliities and new ways of behaving which enable us to be happier and healthier whatever we choose.

I don't think I would have appreciated the boxes either.
But I would probably have simply answered

'prefer not to say'

I understand some of your feelings as I left an emotionally and financially abusive relationship.

Domestic and other abuse is about power dynamics and how they play out in society. There is still so little understanding of this with some professionals.

If you have suffered abuse in my view you can often recognise such structures at fifty paces.

I don’t want to derail the OP thread so will merely observe that assuming a TW or TM needs a “sexchange” to be trans is deeply transphobic

OP I completely understand - either they think gender and sex are the same which is worrying or they subscribe ti gender ideology which is also worrying and also tone deaf when dealing with someone who has suffered sex based violence

Oh my dear. If it helps - I have talked to my therapist about this too, in the context of finding it extremely difficult when people refuse to acknowledge material reality and force you to be complicit in their interpretation of it - especially where to do so denies damage that was done to you. Might that be part of what's upsetting you? The form assumes that asking about gender identity first is more inclusive, but for you it's deeply exclusive and wounding. But there's no space for you to say that. You had to give a wrong answer, in a free-text box!

Perhaps give some thought to how you would like to use this in a therapeutic setting. Be angry. That's good. You don't need to be able to speak calmly about this, you don't need to go in with the answers or to be 'nice' to your therapist. This experience has been traumatic for you and her job is to hold that trauma and anger and help you find a way through it to reach insight.

If, for whatever reason, she can't do that for you, then you can challenge her on it. That is your right and role. Again, her job is to hold it and help you work through it. It's a bit scary, but if she's good she will be able to do it.

And again, I’m not referring to trans in sports. I’m referring to the simple fact that if you have to enter your details on a form and look even remotely like a woman or a man (despite being born the other) you can easily enter your details as either female or male. There is literally nothing you can do about that.

And where does gender neutral fit into your theory?

@OldCrone

I mean that they have undergone what used to be called and as far as I know (or care) still is called a sex change operation. Then they tick that gender/sex on forms. It’s really quite simple, I’m not meaning it in the philosophical battle of the ages of feminist vs trans ideology that your suggesting, just literally someone who’s had a sex change operation/s or says they are the opposite sex.

And again, I’m not referring to trans in sports. I’m referring to the simple fact that if you have to enter your details on a form and look even remotely like a woman or a man (despite being born the other) you can easily enter your details as either female or male. There is literally nothing you can do about that.
Same as trans or whatever in women’s toilets and dressing rooms - if they look remotely like a woman and especially if they dress feminine there is literally nothing you can do to stop them from going there as they probably have been for decades already (if not longer) - nothing that is short of doing physicals on everyone entering every public toilet and dressing rooms everywhere all the time, which obviously won’t be happening. So you might as well get over it.

No, it’s enforcement of an ideology. The form might as well have asked whether the OP had found Jesus, with a little box to tick saved/unsaved.

YES!

Are you seeing your therapist through the NHS or another service like that, or privately? As you said she didn't write it, I was just wondering if it's something she has been asked to get her clients to complete by the service.

Definitely talk to her about it and the feelings it brings up. Depending on how she works in general, I wouldn't expect her to reveal her own views about it though - much like a therapist wouldn't reveal which party they vote for or similar.

I'm also a trained therapist (not currently practicing) and the other side of this issue is unfortunately that I would feel worried about revealing my gender critical views in any work context in case the response from colleagues would be hostile. So, I wouldn't have the courage to address an issue like a form with this question with the service if I was working there for fear of losing my job.

[quote SaltyPepper]@OldCrone

Means they believe they’re the other and get a sex change or whatever. No skin off mine.

In theory if this offends you that trans are given their own category you should be more offended if they weren’t - after all then they would actually be ticking that they are the gender they believe they are
And would be counted as that. Now how would you put a stop to that?[/quote]
Are you saying that you think 'gender neutral' means the same as transgender?

Sex change? What do you mean by this? It is not possible for humans to change sex.

Do you think males who think they are women would tick 'gender neutral'? Perhaps you should ask some of them (but you should be aware that you will be called 'transphobic' for suggesting such a thing).

Do you not realise that some males are already often 'counted as' women - when they commit crimes for example, or when they want awards which are supposed to be for women, or want to compete in women's sports? But you're quite right that it's proving difficult to put a stop to that.

*on the whole

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@SaltyPepper "gender neutral" isn't a category for trans people. It's not asking are you man/woman/trans. [/quote]
And even if it did have a box for trans (GC people would think this more appropriate, otherwise whole) a transwoman might still just tick woman, because that's how they see themselves/want to be perceived.
Hence all the nonsense around calling women who were actually born female, c*s.
It's an interesting conundrum once you start looking into it.

@SaltyPepper "gender neutral" isn't a category for trans people. It's not asking are you man/woman/trans.