Therapist asking if I'm a man, woman or gender neutral.

[quote SaltyPepper]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Yes, they are minority beliefs. The belief in sex being unchanging is the majority - however the feminist belief that gender is seperate from sex and is a “performance” is a very minority view.

Obviously you are mistaken that once you explain your point of view to people they are troubled. If this were so more people would be as upset as you are and yet they’re not. Perhaps they’re humouring you because your so obviously deeply obsessed with this.

What exactly do you think I’m in the minority on? I’m not the trans activist you seem to see everywhere.

What is your point about men and women’s clothes? We still have men’s and women’s clothes. Of course trans people shouldn’t allow themselves to be triggered by that. What on earth is your point?[/quote]
You have missed so much. You are clueless and are ignoring the words of those who know more than you.

Hospital wards
Prison cells
Sports
Awards
Jobs
Politicians
MoD
MoJ

And many many more are embroiled in this. Why do you think there are so many threads, so many newspaper articles, so many debates in the House of Lords, so many court cases, so many laws being changed?

For one moment think - have you missed something?

however the feminist belief that gender is seperate from sex and is a “performance” is a very minority view.

No, the idea that gender is a performance is Judith Butler, not general feminist theory. It is more in the field of ‘queer theory’.

Gender is cultural expectations of how people should behave and present based on sex, regardless of whether they confirm to those expectations.

As I’ve already explained - it means someone feels that they can change sex/gender.

No, that is not what ‘gender neutral’ means. ‘Neutral’ means neither one thing or the other, or if related to colour, beige. It has no meaning that relates to change.

As I’ve already explained - it means someone feels that they can change sex/gender.

Why on earth should a question about a minority belief be included on a form for everyone? What is the point of asking about this belief?

It’s funny to act like trans are some ever growing movement like a communist or fascist revolution taking place - they’re a minuscule minority and always will be.

You admit this is a minority belief, and yet look what is happening to appease this tiny minority. Here's another thread from today:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4405154-labour-member-suspended-for-saying-only-women-go-through-menopause

And that for OP’s own mental health she shouldn’t allow herself to be so triggered by a standard form that she doesn’t get the help she needs. And if this is that triggering to her she does need it.

What a hideous thing to say. Many people would be triggered by this. Are you suggesting that we should ignore them? cos if we're going down the route of ignoring some people who are triggered, can you explain why we should not just ignore the pain of the "miniscule minority" of trans people rather than the large number of women who've been abused by men?

Stop hiding behind the narrative of being a 'standard form'. There have been many things which have been 'standard' which as a society we no longer accept. Whether or not it's a standard form (it isn't) is completely irrelevant.

It used to be standard to have men's clothes and women's clothes. Are you suggesting that if trans people were triggered by that, they should just have not allowed themselves to be?

Your posts are awful.

Your “highly personal views” are your views on trans ideology being incompatible and opposed to your feminist ideology surrounding gender

This really, really, really is not a highly personal view. It is really the mainstream view.

and this is why you are so trouble by the question. Most people who simply didn’t particularly agree with trans people having really changed sex/gender wouldn’t be as troubled as you by a gender neutral option even if they didn’t fully agree it was possible

It's not fair on the OP to suggest she is troubled by an offensive question because of anything in her rather than because of the question and the troublesome ideology it reinforces. Those people who are not troubled, in my experience, just don't understand what is being said as they are still of the naive belief that society could not really disappear up its own arse in the way that it has. Once it's explained to them, they are really troubled.

It’s not me whose in the bubble of minority thought on this.

It is

Without wanting to cause offense it seems that you are projecting many of your own issues into your own ideology and opposing trans ideology and if that makes this form so troubling to you, that may be an obstacle to you getting help. I really think you should let it go rather than hold back from getting help if you need it.

Stop gaslighting the OP. She is not projecting her issues at all. She is objecting to a question that is attempting to create a narrative in which the reality of her abusive experience - perpetuated because of her body, not her identity - is diminished and ignored. Good on OP for saying no to this. When a victim says 'enough', they are not projecting. It's too easy to write off what abused people say and attribute it to their abuse rather than actually listening.

OPs views are not niche and are not a projection of the undeniable trauma caused because of her biology.

“Mouseonmychair

This is a standard form and a standard question. Seriously some people look for offence in everything. Just fill out the question as it states from the 3 answers. I don't know anyone who would be unable to answer“

Of course it isn’t standard.

It is extremely offensive in the context of OP’s therapy. Did you read her post?

If she believes that a man who identifies as a woman because he at least in part finds it sexually thrilling to be victimised by men IS a woman, then where do my experiences of being sexually victimised because I am a woman fit in?

Quite so.

OP no one has yet mentioned the case of the transman left in disbelief after being raped. The poor thing reported that despite being repeatedly told during the assault that his victim was a man, the rapist persisted with his PIV attack.

It was heartbreaking that the poor young transman genuinely believed that their gender identity over rode sex not only in their own eyes but also in those of a strange male sexual predator.

Terrifying naivety.

I'm with you OP. I don't go to therapy because I am too scared of this ideology coming up and for me it would be a huge trigger and a barrier for what I want to talk about, i.e. gaslighting. If a therapist can't see it's gaslighting then how can they understand me at all? There's no help there.

I think what you've written here is clear and your points are easy to follow so when you talk to your therapist I would basically say what you're saying here. Maybe take some notes so you don't forget anything important.

Are you accessing therapy privately or through NHS? In either case, you have a right to stop or to change therapists, but with NHS obviously you're more limited as to what you can do. I wish you luck with it

The vast majority of humanity also hold that sex and gender are the same

If sex and gender are the same, what does 'gender neutral' mean on the form that the OP mentioned?

This is what the OP said about the form:

The question was:
"Are you a:
Man
Woman
Gender neutral"

So if gender and sex are the same, it's asking are you a man, a woman or 'sex neutral'?

What does 'sex neutral' mean?

The vast majority of humanity also hold that sex and gender are the same.

People who use non-binary gender identity categories do not believe this and the OP was clearly asked whether she is ‘gender neutral’.

I’m not sure what you believe, but it isn’t relevant to the question asked which was obviously about gender identity.

Does this make the view that sex they are not the same niche religious as well?

The vast majority of humanity also hold that sex and gender are the same.

No the vast majority of humanity believe that the words " sex" and gender mean the same, both referring to one of the two human sex classes and with the latter being simply a euphemism for the former.

It’s not me whose in the bubble of minority thought on this. Without wanting to cause offense it seems that you are projecting many of your own issues into your own ideology and opposing trans ideology and if that makes this form so troubling to you, that may be an obstacle to you getting help. I really think you should let it go rather than hold back from getting help if you need it.

What ideology is the OP projecting?

Surely it is the therapists who are projecting their ideology onto their patients?

The therapists are the ones espousing the ideology, against all scientific evidence , that human sex classes are not binary. It is not the place of therapists to force their religious/ philosophical beliefs onto their patients.

@334bu

The vast majority of humanity also hold that sex and gender are the same. Or at the least that the sexes are different and this will always lead to different gendered behaviour.

Does this make the view that sex they are not the same niche religious as well?

And yet the moment you ask one of those who don't care what they think about men accessing single sex female spaces, taking part in women's sports or if, as a man they would sleep with a transwomen everything changes.

Once the physical reality is understood most people suddenly realise that they have no it engaged with the topic enough to have understood what it is some women are shouting about.

Which is why we keep shouting.

Without wanting to cause offense it seems that you are projecting many of your own issues into your own ideology and opposing trans ideology and if that makes this form so troubling to you, that may be an obstacle to you getting help. I really think you should let it go rather than hold back from getting help if you need it

The male CEO of a rape crisis said similar 🤔 I hope you aren't going to tell op she should regrade her trauma ?

@aweegc

I’m not a trans activist nor do I really care about their ideology. The majority of the country (and all countries) do think sex is a fact - however this is probably the only part of your view that is shared by the majority, as the majority don’t even differentiate between sex and gender, dont believe gender is a performance and aren’t feminists or caught up in the whole trans vs feminist ideology battle. It barely registers with them. They’re probably more aware of it through Piers Morgan and his ilk.

Your “highly personal views” are your views on trans ideology being incompatible and opposed to your feminist ideology surrounding gender and this is why you are so trouble by the question. Most people who simply didn’t particularly agree with trans people having really changed sex/gender wouldn’t be as troubled as you by a gender neutral option even if they didn’t fully agree it was possible.

It’s not me whose in the bubble of minority thought on this. Without wanting to cause offense it seems that you are projecting many of your own issues into your own ideology and opposing trans ideology and if that makes this form so troubling to you, that may be an obstacle to you getting help. I really think you should let it go rather than hold back from getting help if you need it.

If you are expecting your therapist and some random form to share your highly personal views on sex/gender and all that jazz you will probably be disappointed more often than not. The question is can you get therapy from someone who doesn’t share your exact feminist politics? Because it’s obvious that this has upset you greatly and probably should be worked through.

No they are expecting their therapist to share the knowledge held by the vast majority of humanity that sex is binary and important , especially when it comes to a female person who has been the victim of male violence. Any therapist who is promoting niche religious/ philosophical views as this form seems to suggest , should be avoided at all cost.

Or it may just be a misunderstanding. Stop with the threatening language.

Surely the urgent thing for the patient to tackle right now is the gaslighting, to unpick that, and shore up her boundries.

You could say that she needs a massive amount of work on reality, the tangible, the objective.

Not "how do you feel about being a woman" ?