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Original poster

The Women's Institute and inclusivity

58 replies

GloGirl · 17/11/2021 10:44

In March the WI updated their Equality, Diversity and Inclusion policies, which makes for interesting reading.

The Women's Institute is the the UK’s largest women’s membership organisation so a fairly important voice in campaigning for women and supporting them. So, it was difficult to read that the WI "called in trans education charity Gendered Intelligence to help draft the section on transgender members in the new Equality, Diversity and Inclusion policy".

www.thewi.org.uk/about-us/wi-key-messages/equality-diversity-inclusion-policy

This might explains why anyone reading the WI's Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Glossary of Terms could see definitions for the words:

Agender, Ally, Cisgender, Gender expression, Gender fluid, Gender identity, GRC, Non-binary, Transitioning

But there are no written definitions for Lesbian or Bi-sexual .

Bi-Gender of course, is defined.

(if you were wondering, the word Gay is defined as a man who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men .)

Anyone visiting a WI, would think that inclusion policies based on race, disability or ageism might be the most appropriate topics to spend time getting right. It is a predominantly white charity with a lot of elderly and infirm members. I'm enormously proud of the WI and our members. Warm, welcoming, campaigning - the whole bunch. Many campaigns have started in grass roots WIs such as Keep Britain Tidy.

I'm deeply upset to read of the brief sentence given to breastfeeding mums in their document, but paragraphs devoted to transgender members.

But I am mostly furious at the disregard given to lesbian and bisexual members who only have a small paragraph in the Inclusivity policy and are not even graced with being defined in the Glossary.

OP posts:
KittenKong · 28/12/2021 09:52

Was going to join but this out me off, so what are they going to do? Hope that more male bodied persons will join to make up for the shortfall of women who refuse to join an organisation for women that disregards them so badly?

Rightsraptor · 28/12/2021 08:38

Not a WI member and, based on that guff I have just read in the EDI policy, I never will be. BTW why is inclusion a 'basic right', anyone know? I don't consider myself to have a basic right to join the local 'men's shed' MH project.

Sorry to digress but just wanted to point out the document I read is up for review in March 2022. Am sure some wonderful MN WI vipers can provide them with some splendid suggestions 😀

Original poster
GloGirl · 28/12/2021 08:04

I've got a nice bit of time off now in this Twixmas Brew Thought I would bump this thread to see if there are any more WI members who would like to write to the National Federation about this issue. I notice they still haven't updated their glossary of terms.

OP posts:
MrMrsJones · 21/11/2021 21:21

@merrymouse

Because they are a womens group

GreyhoundG1rl · 19/11/2021 17:31

Then they need to be upfront and drop the word Women (it's only USP) from the name.

merrymouse · 19/11/2021 16:17

@MrMrsJones

We should all joj6and take along our husbands, male partners and they can say they are women. This would show how utterly stupid this is.
Why would they need to say they are women? A fully inclusive WI should include everyone.
Melroses · 19/11/2021 16:07

Yes, it seems to be a thing.

They could all be photographed for the front of the magazine too. It could be the most inclusive WI meeting in the country Smile

MrMrsJones · 19/11/2021 15:47

We should all joj6and take along our husbands, male partners and they can say they are women. This would show how utterly stupid this is.

Melroses · 19/11/2021 15:42

@GloGirl - sorry I didn't make it clear, she moved to the UK from Iran in 1974 and has never been back for obvious reasons. The small talk was about what country she was from.

GreyhoundG1rl · 19/11/2021 14:50

I was involved in the running of a WI and we had a man so eager to join he said he would wear a dress hmm (but never declared himself a woman so he still wasn't allowed to join)
Sounds like the sort of oddball you'd cross the street to avoid, rather than willingly sit next to.

Original poster
GloGirl · 19/11/2021 14:46

@Melroses

I have a friend who has lived, married and raised children in the countryside here since 1974, who once went to the WI where she was treated as an oddity by the one person who spoke to her and never went back.

They need to do a lot more work on their actual inclusion of the women they are supposed to be there for.

What a shame for your friend.

It's difficult though, I've welcomed visitors, sat people with friendly welcoming members and still received reports that nobody said anything to them all evening. Ultimately at a WI level it's dependent on people at an individual level. I've seen people feel welcomed and excluded and they've both experienced the same thing.

National policies are at the heart of every single WI and the idea that there would be such little forethought into the information you would share round for thousands of members is infuriating.

They think just by appealing to what they view is a young demographic they will get more members. Like you say there is significantly more inclusivity needed on other equality factors not just someone with a GRC.

OP posts:
Melroses · 19/11/2021 13:47

I have a friend who has lived, married and raised children in the countryside here since 1974, who once went to the WI where she was treated as an oddity by the one person who spoke to her and never went back.

They need to do a lot more work on their actual inclusion of the women they are supposed to be there for.

Original poster
GloGirl · 19/11/2021 13:30

@TalesOfDrunkennessAndCruelty

I feel I ought to resign (and I did from Girlguiding) but I’ve been a member too long and would miss it too much.
Better out than in Tales Flowers

If you could write a complaint it will support mine too. I'm absolutely outraged and want to make sure they at least rectify offending all the lesbians in our WI!

OP posts:
TalesOfDrunkennessAndCruelty · 19/11/2021 12:37

I feel I ought to resign (and I did from Girlguiding) but I’ve been a member too long and would miss it too much.

SpringCrocus · 19/11/2021 01:51

The only letter I wrote to my local and National WI was the one saying I was resigning over this.

MrsFin · 18/11/2021 22:16

If you admit people based on their gender identity, are you still allowed to call yourself a single sex organisation and receive the privileges that affords you?

Girl Guiding does. It's one of the reasons I left.

merrymouse · 18/11/2021 15:05

Well having read the glossary of terms I can only assume that 'lesbian' means somebody who comes from the Island of Lesbos. I'm not really sure how they fit into it all.

I'm also thinking that men and children should be allowed to join the WI because next to the definition of inclusion it says "Inclusion is a basic right and its objective should be to embrace everyone regardless of individual differences."

I can also see that the vast majority of people in the world are either transgender or at the very least bi-gender.

Still not sure why Greece is relevant.

Original poster
GloGirl · 18/11/2021 10:32

Having said all that, what annoys me more than anything is still that the Equality policy appears to be mainly written with transwomen in mind. The Glossary of terms certainly didn't include any of the numerous lesbian or bisexual women at the WI.

I'm going to write and ask:

  1. How much was Gendered Intelligence paid for their support in writing the document.
  2. Which other external organisations for any other group characteristics were invited to participate.
  3. How much consideration was given to lesbian and bisexual women at the WI.
  4. Whether they feel there was a fair balance between all protected characteristics in their inclusion policy.
  5. I will ask them to update the glossary to include all important terms.

I'm not sure about the single sex charitable status and gender identity issue.

I'm not arguing trans women should be included or excluded in the WI, I want to make sure they uphold their charitable status by acting according with the guidelines. Advice and support appreciated!

The WI is the largest women's membership organisation in the UK so any "capture" by ideology needs to be resolved. Knowing the pace of the WI this will take eons.

OP posts:
Original poster
GloGirl · 18/11/2021 10:24

@MrsFin

I wonder if they would cop a feel under our skirts to check, if we all applied to join?
I don't think anyone needs to take it to that extremes. But you can either exclude people based on their sex, or not.

I was involved in the running of a WI and we had a man so eager to join he said he would wear a dress Hmm (but never declared himself a woman so he still wasn't allowed to join)

WIs are set up so that the National organisation has rules and processes that small individual WIs have the support of policies.

If you admit people based on their gender identity, are you still allowed to call yourself a single sex organisation and receive the privileges that affords you?

OP posts:
candycane222 · 17/11/2021 13:46

Eew I just don't don't don't want any male bodies people "associating freely" with me in the loos. No Thank You.

(Though as pps point out, if there were male bodied people present they aren't single sex.

I remember the utter joy of women only gatherings and support back in my heady 80s youth and I could weep.

MrsFin · 17/11/2021 13:40

I wonder if they would cop a feel under our skirts to check, if we all applied to join?

MrsFin · 17/11/2021 13:38

Well masons allow men in if they decide they are women after they join, but they will still call them "brother".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45030075.amp

Those now eligible to become a member of a male-only lodge include:
Men
A Freemason who joined as a man, but later underwent gender reassignment to become a woman
A woman who underwent reassignment to become a man before applying to become a Freemason
So women can't join unless they've had the operation.

SolasAnla · 17/11/2021 13:19

PaleGreenGhost
I'd love someone to explain the thinking behind the exclusion of lesbian from the glossary. And the potentially transphobic definition of "gay".

Logic of gatekeeping in the ability to amend the formal rules of a group.
First define
woman: male or female adult human

That remove the need to use the term "women and"

Not defining lesbians in a women's group when the group could have both heterosexual and homosexual males.
That stops the document creating a directly homophobic/heterophobic policy as a heterosexual male is not a homosexual female but is classed as a "woman".
It removes the need to use the term "lesbian female women and"

Gay man is dependent on the definition of man not gay.
Defining "man", who are individuals outside the group who can't influence or object to the definition or be discriminated against is fine provided that "man" has not been defined in the document as man : female or male adult human.

Its word play.
Same as used in hospital policy eg
Female patient objecting to male patient.
HCP is to inform the woman the other patient is a woman and then educate the woman as if she were a white women objecting to a black woman in a single sex hospital ward.

Clymene · 17/11/2021 12:40

Well they're lying aren't they? The WI is not a single sex space.

Snugglepumpkin · 17/11/2021 12:38

So, they are not the Womens Institute any more.

They should be renamed The Institute.

The minute they let men in, they have no right to pretend to speak for or represent women.