US professor wants to "rebrand" pedophilia

I think more stigma and shaming is the way to go. Like it should be totally unacceptable to make a comment about a young girl being "sexy" and sexualised images of girls should be considered completely beyond the pale. A lot of women already live this in practice. But in the wider culture, there's still the "sexy schoolgirl" image, still child porn images in mainstream ads, still widespread sexualisation of girls. I think it needs to be that the vast majority find this sickening and it's just considered unacceptable, way before it gets to any kind of actual behaviour. This would also involve ironclad safeguarding practices.

I don't know what you do about men expressing concerns that they might rape or want to rape children. I think in an environment where it was completely taboo, you'd see a lot less of that. But I do understand the point of view that we have to make it possible for those who feel out of control of their "urges" to seek treatment/restraint. I just don't agree that destigmatisation is the way to do that.

I think you may be right @BloodinGutters

I'm so very sorry for your experiences and for anyone on here who has been victim to CSA, but please bear in mind that there will be people on this thread who will use your testament as their next fantasy fodder so please think carefully about what you disclose.

Its a shame it has to be said, but it is what it is.

A paedophile (dictionary definition) could be someone who no-one would ever know was a paedophile because he never told anyone nor did anything, and a thought crime isn;t really a crime, however vile that thought might be.

I don't know how anyone could know that people in every instance view images anyway? There's no data that could tell us that. Obviously it won't be true in any case where no images are available, which would be increasingly rare, unfortunately.

With regard to people not being able to control themselves - realistically, some people don't. Most people have some experience of doing something they know was immoral, and some times really immoral. And many people struggle with sexual behavior. Our society also exacerbates this constantly, rather than helping people develop continence. Some people are weak, morally speaking. Prisons are full of pepole like this, often related to things like FAS and impulse control disorders.

It's not that there should be no consequences when they fail, but it's unrealistic to think some won't.

This is nothing new - I've heard that term bandied around before.

I don't think an official rebrand would achieve anything positive.

The latter should be something people can do without being scared theyll be lynched. But I've been called a child rapist apologist by @Clymene just for saying that so imagine what she, and others on this thread, would call the people coming forward and asking for treatment.

@BloodinGutters I just want to give you some flowers.

I hope you now have a safe place to live, with people who love you.

The latter should be something people can do. But recognizing the thoughts are a problem depends on the former being stigmatized.

Go work in the clinics in Germany. And you'll see. They are completely protected from any criminal charges for anything they admit in the treatment, and it is totally voluntary treatment. It makes them honest.
Plenty of awful stories, and it is very very hard to accept that it is totally confidential and cannot be reported to the police. But there are also many young men who haven't viewed images or taken any action. But they have wanted to when seeing children out and about. So they voluntarily went for therapy.

It just isnt true to say every single person with these urges has offended.

Contrast the concern for these 'poor' MAP men's sexual expression with society's acceptance that millions of women each year are forced into child marriage and prostitution.

Being a peadophile isn’t about being ‘attracted’ to children. It’s about getting off on power over them, same as any male sexual violence is. Putting together the idea that no one can help their attraction to children with they were all abused as children themselves anyways absolutely is a form of excusing it.

This doesn't actually meet the definition. People who are not sexually attracted to children specifically, but get off on power and so choose them as victims, are not pedophiles.

There is no point having words, especially when talking about medical and psychological diagnoses, if we aren't going to bother to use them accurately. It has a specific meaning because it describes a certain type of presentation seen by doctors.

Outcomes and correlation that apply to this group may not apply to other types of abusers. That's a useful distinction for many reasons.

In my city a group of imprisoned child sexual abusers were protesting being held in prison as they were more likely to get COVID in close quarters. While this was true for all prisoners, somehow this group felt it was worse for them.

They staged a hunger strike, which didn't last long and garnered almost no sympathy.

A few comments on the newspaper website were, "pedophiles stopped eating and I'm supposed to care?"

@TheWeeDonkey

More than minimises it. It facilitates it.

For fucks sake - the ‘line crossed’ is using images of abuse, or child porn- and there is no such fucking thing as peadophiles who don’t use wank fodder.

There are real children in those images. So the line is crossed, the crime committed, when these males are teens still. This is ‘acting on it’. This is being a predator or a criminal or a peadophile.

Stop sterilising it by claiming there’s a line they haven’t crossed or they haven’t acted on it.

@Clymene is 100% right when she says that’s being a rape apologist.

@PicsInRed

All this shite about poor "MAPs" only trying to find a cure is a complete rehash of the drivel spouted by the perverts of PIE in the 70s.

The reality was that they were an active abuse gang, who had zero intention of getting help. Men who want help go and seek counselling, and get help.

Here's a clue: anyone using minimising language like MAP isn't trying to stop being the thing they've created the minimising language to describe.

Only a few years back weren't they trying to rebrand themselves "KIND"? Oh, what a cuddly word, they must simply like kids, lovely.

They can fuck off.

You can use whatever language you like, the behaviour is still the same. The harm to children is the same. All the rebranding does is minimise the abuse of children.

Now, now, @FloralBunting Cease and desist with the logic!

That's one of my problems with this. If taken far enough then every crime that cold possibly be committed could be treated the same way - oh dear, naught thief, arsonist, blackmailer. Let's study the precusrosrs to your urge and promise not to do it again, take a chill pill and be an upstanding citizen.

Next step: Everyone takes a chill pill from birth, to ensure no naughtiness.

Remember, whatever a sci fi/dystopian writer can imagine some scientist somehere will be able to invent the damn thing!

@Ozanj

Provide sources to back up that claim.

As someone whose mother handed me over to be raped and filmed by her boyfriends, and certainly distributed the films, I think the women do it too accusations need stats to back them up. Because I’ve scored over studies looking for this, worked in related areas, and found very very little that indicates women like my mother and rose west or Myra hindley etc are anything other than the extreme rarity.

And unless you have a fuck tone of robust studies to back that up kindly stop using my experience of being victimised by a woman to spout such bs.

I'm curious - is the same tactic being tried with men who might be rapists? Destigmatizing rape, so that men who think they have the urge to rape will be able to pop along to the GP, in a safe space, to say "I want to sexually assault a woman, can I get some help to not do that?"
Because the whole point is a child cannot consent. So this 'urge' is an urge to rape. That's nothing to destigmatize.

There are not really any good statistics on how many people might have this kind of attraction without ever acting on it. Almost all studies are on offenders in prison.

It's also worth knowing that not all sexual child abusers are actually pedophiles, and if I am remembering correctly it might even be that the larger portion aren't. They are instead people who are interested in abuse or sexual abuse more generally and don't care about who the victim is. Children are targeted by these people because they are vulnerable rather than preferred as such.

When I say pills - it's depo injection of Lupron now... like the contarceptive Depo Provera, an injection every 12 weeks. I'd be interested to see a study on take up rates, the voluntary kind, for non offending 'MAPs'.

I might have more of a shufty.

Having worked with boys who were convicted of sex offences it was definitely true of those we worked with and the common view of forensic psychologists we worked with.

[quote ImUninsultable]@RedDogsBeg

Couple it with all the studies which have looked into the theory that men are less likely to reveal past childhood abuse.

Anyway, it is one part of what I said. And you can argue about percentages, or about influencing factors on those percentages but it doesnt really change anything.

My actual point that medical treatment should be easily accessible for anyone who comes forward before they offend stands. And they shouldn't be called child rapists and I shouldn't be called a child rapists apologist for saying so.

What else can we do? Tell them they're disgusting rapists, deviants or whatever other horrible word. If they haven't offended then they are not. And treatment should be accessible without stigma.[/quote]
I dunno if your on Twitter but an awful lot of Twitter profiles actually have MAP or NOMAP in their profile (NOMAP stands for non offending minor attracted person) pretty sure non of them are even thinking about treatment. They share stuff on Twitter itself about their ideal age being 4years or 11years or 3 months, they share what sex child, how they would do it, they insinuate about their sisters daughter, their neighbours new baby etc. No shame in them at all. And no therapy. They are happy being peadophile.
I have no idea if rapists are given any treatment at all but I bet a bloody good start would be to admit they were in fact a rapist. Nothing much can come after that if you wont admit wrongdoing.