Why aren’t binders a regulated medical device?

I think questions need to be raised and those involved in child safeguarding need to be aware of all the potential risks. How many companies make binders? Are they all vigorously tested to make sure they're not going to cause the most serious damage?

Perhaps if they had to be prescription doctors could assess and prescribe better types or some of the other types with fewer side effects? And monitor their patient's health.

I'm sure teachers would welcome guidance, doctors and families too. How does one go about asking for NHS guidance into something like this? I think am awareness campaign on the possible dangers/harms and ways to avoid would be good too.

I find it hard to believe we are being told Binders are perfectly safe and described as ‘shapewear’, including high heels, by one poster.

I didn’t describe them as ‘perfectly safe’. I described them as no more harmful than some of the stupid things I wore as a teen, one of which I noted left me with a permanent dicky ankle. The list of harms from heels (ankle damage, bunions, shortened achilles, distorted toes, foot pain, blisters…) is greater than anything I have seen from binders. But we don’t ban those.

I also noted that it would be hard to distinguish in law between garments which smoosh the breasts down and those that use wires and padding to smoosh them up. Both are distorting the breasts for aesthetics. Having worn both, the latter is substantially less comfortable. The latter are also associated with injuries.

I don’t like binders. But I don’t like them because I see them as a ‘gateway drug’ to medical transition, which emphatically is harmful to teens. I think what lush is doing is appalling, because they’re going behind parents backs.

But I think trying to get them banned as a medical device is a hiding to nothing. Particularly as the more lightly regulated medical devices (bandages, splints, pulse oximetres) are freely available for kids to buy, anyway.

Harmless? And because you wore it too long you now suffer pain? Do You understand that pain is your bodies way of telling you that binding your breasts is the very opposite of ‘harmless’?

You are an adult. You make your own choices. But you cannot deny that no person under the age of 18 should be using them, parental supervision or not. The study that shows binding impedes breathing are clear.

When is it a suitable time of day/week for a child to impede their breathing? To restrict their movements because of what they are wearing?

I find it hard to believe we are being told Binders are perfectly safe and described as ‘shapewear’, including high heels, by one poster. Told that another has worn theirs for too long in one stint and is suffering pain. While both posters are declaring that those that oppose under 18 year old females wearing binders are just ignorant because people will just do it anyway.

How dare any adult try to stop their child making decisions that may cause them to permanently harm themselves? How dare any adult seek to try and address the root of the issue in the first place - the need to do it?

Breast ironing (my bold):

www.safeguardingcambspeterborough.org.uk/children-board/professionals/procedures/breast-ironing/

2. Definition

“The United Nations (UN) states that Breast Ironing affects 3.8 million women around the world and has been identified as one of the five under-reported crimes relating to gender-based violence. The custom uses large stones, a hammer or spatulas that have been heated over scorching coals to compress the breast tissue of girls as young as 9 years old. Those who derive from richer families may opt to use an elastic belt to press the breasts so as to prevent them from growing.”

“The mutilation is a traditional practice from Cameroon designed to make teenage girls look less ‘womanly’ and to deter unwanted male attention, pregnancy and rape. The practice is commonly performed by family members, 58% of the time by the mother. In many cases the abuser thinks they are doing something good for their daughter, by delaying the effects of puberty so that she can continue her education, rather than getting married.”

Why is it abuse if the breasts of a Cameroonian girl are bound, but celebrated if the breasts of a gender non-conforming girl are bound?

I have a dull ache on my left side and it hurts when i breath because i wore it over night.

Is that with a commercial binder? If so, how does this follow, logically:
That might happen more when you try to ban it and drive it underground with DIY methods.

Because what you're saying is that you're an adult with the "proper kit" and you have still managed to injure yourself and you don't follow your own advice.
What about your statement will make anyone think a child would do better than you have?

Ace bandages (which are designed to constrict, so as you breathe, they get tighter and tighter)
How does this work? They're just stretchy bandages, how do they tighten themselves?

Ace is a US brand name, I see they're available on amazon etc here now. But these kinds of bandages have been available for years. Do they only self-tighten if placed on the torso? I've used them elsewhere and never noticed this phenomenon.

Right you are, ducks.

Convince you of what? I don't need your permission or approval. My body my choice. It's harmful with your silly approach. Under 18 i personally think it should be with parental supervision rather than diy, so properly fitting. I have a dull ache on my left side and it hurts when i breath because i wore it over night. That might happen more when you try to ban it and drive it underground with DIY methods. Rather than going against the group you want to ""protect"" maybe engage with us. You have 2 ears and 1 mouth, use that ratio.

I've listened to you. I am not convinced.

Binders are clearly harmful.

Children and those under 18 should not be getting them handed out with their glittery unicorn bath bombs.

People on here seem to think that a binder squeezes DDcups completely flat. That’s completely unrealistic.

^ This. E cups for sure will not be flat. (But it's entirely possible to have a great result from top surgery after five years of responsbily wearing a high quality binder to lessen the appearance of E cups.)

If they are only just developing then it wouldn’t be obvious under baggy clothing at all.

Breasts aren’t just random lumps of fat. They are organs designed to make milk for infants. It isn’t just flattening thighs, it’s compressing an organ and that causes long term damage. According to the nhs there is serious risks associated with wearing them and they won’t endorse them.

Mother’s can care about issues that impact our children’s safety and well-being.

The funny thing is that a group of people who have never seen or worn a binder are discussing them….

Oh. This again.

And yet, many of us are parents of teenagers who this is entirely relevant to.

Again, crack on doing what you want. Stop making out this is harmless.

And stop trying to ‘shame’ people, parents included, from discussing the harms here.

The funny thing is that a group of people who have never seen or worn a binder are discussing them….

A reality check? Oh, good lord.

I'm also concerned about FGM, despite not having experienced it myself. And child marriage, and unnecessary circumcision. This is 'mumsnet'; I find it really odd that you are surprised that mothers are concerned about potentially harmful practises among young people.

I mean, a binder is obviously also designed to constrict. That is how you flatten a breast. There is no other way to make tissue take up less space or be less prominent than by constriction.

I would definitely like to see some NHS/Nice guidelines, though. That would seem sensible.

The funny thing is that a group of people who have never seen or worn a binder are discussing them….
And at the same time normalization objectively damaging body shaping devices that they deem to be appropriate and are commonly worn by under 18 year olds.
A short reality check:
Good binders are expensive. Mine are £40 a piece. You generally need a credit card to buy one. The chance that an 11 year old manages to buy one and wear it nonstop ( as implied above) is laughable and would need some seriously unengaged parents (they are binders! Its bloody obvious if you wear one!). Good ones allow you to breath just fine - its the cheapos via amazon that can be trouble, or ace bandages etc (trans tape is fine, but you can’t get it in the uk).
Binders also don’t have and claims attached - apart from flattening your chest. Same as bras really, just that bras promise bigger chests or support while being active.
They also don’t promise or provide a completely flat chest. Depending on cup size, that’s just not possible. I have a small b cup, my binder gives my a flat chest. Anything bigger - its flatter, not but not completely flat. People on here seem to think that a binder squeezes DDcups completely flat. That’s completely unrealistic.

Actually that large scale study showed DIY binding was less harmful than binders, iirc.

Regardless of what the large scale study says, in practise this is laughable. Surely you can see that a properly fitted binder is way less harmful than duct tape or Ace bandages (which are designed to constrict, so as you breathe, they get tighter and tighter).

Oh, fab, thanks Embarrassing!

Arabella's link

Here's the study on health effects of binding.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27300085/

Peitzmeier S, Gardner I, Weinand J, Corbet A, Acevedo K. Health impact of chest binding among transgender adults: a community-engaged, cross-sectional study. Cult Health Sex. 2017 Jan;19(1):64-75. doi: 10.1080/13691058.2016.1191675. Epub 2016 Jun 14. PMID: 27300085.

is available to read free to access here:

cabinradio.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Health-impact-of-chest-binding-among-transgender-adults-a-community-engaged-cross-sectional-study.pdf

Fab, Aunty. I'll be really interested to hear your thougths.

Binding is mentioned on this site about FGM, on the page about breast flattening.

'some adolescent girls and boys may choose to bind their breast using constrictive material due to gender transformation or identity, and this may also cause health problems.'

nationalfgmcentre.org.uk/breast-flattening/

I work in medical device regulation.

It's an interesting thought.

It is down to the manufacturer to determine if a product classes as a medical device or not with regards the claims they make about how it should be used and what it does. However they shouldn't be disingenuous and can't advertise claims which are not supported by data. Devices are put into different categories depended how high risk they are - simple bandages are Class 1 where manufacturers can self certify to get a CE/UKCA mark with little clinical evidence. How would you differentiate a binder from a bandage? It's all down to the way it is described by the manufacturer.

Unfortunately medical device regulation in the U.K. has fallen behind that in the EU at the moment. But MHRA are keen not to be seen as a lightweight.

I haven't looked into where binders can be bought before and what the product descriptions are. I'll have a look tomorrow and feedback.

I would also like to see the negative effects be very clearly stated and not hidden in search engine results.

No, they are not ‘just like corsets’ or ‘sports bras’ unless you are buying corsets or sports bra that are ‘binders’.

And spreading the misinformation about them being safe is very dangerous.

How about instead of supporting their use, young females under the age of 18 are counseled about accepting their body even with gender dysphoria. After all, why are females who identify as males having to replicate a stereotyped male body? And before you tell us all about how they hate their bodies, why are trans people encouraged to hate their bodies. Why is this acceptable?

And yeah, I hated my female body as a teenager and suffer body dysmorphia even now. So, please tell us why exactly and then why gender dysphoria no longer is defined by stereotypes yet young girls are using those stereotypes to define their needs for binders.

And frankly, as on the other threads, just because people are going to do it anyway is no reason to not regulate binder usage to over 18.

If you as an adult are fully conversant with the effects and still do it, crack on. But don’t ever try to argue that under 18 females should be using them.