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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman's Hour now: BBC walking away from Stonewall

314 replies

nauticant · 11/11/2021 10:06

Emma Barnett is asking the questions.

OP posts:
ferretface · 11/11/2021 14:39

Interesting programme. There has clearly been lots of legal advice taken on this area by the BBC executive team...the points he make sound like the sort of thing an organisation would be arguing in response to an employment tribunal claim against them. It's telling that he reverts back to the defensive legal position of "no actual bias, just a potential perception of bias" and won't deal with the difficult issues.

RoyalCorgi · 11/11/2021 14:37

Interesting about John Boyne. When he originally published his book about a trans child he was a bit rude about Graham Linehan and gc feminism, if I remember correctly. He's obviously come to his senses.

3timeslucky · 11/11/2021 14:36

@OhHolyJesus

Has someone put truth serum in Emma's tea?

Her tune is certainly changed.

It really makes me wonder how many people in media etc are just spouting what they're told/toeing the party line while in their heads and hearts they know it is BS. That must be soul-destroying.
MrMrsJones · 11/11/2021 14:32

Sounds fantastic, need a link please xxxxxxxxx

BarbaraofSeville · 11/11/2021 14:30

However, the Beeb's most recent survey revealed that out of 21,000 staff 400 said they were trans. Yet 25% refused to answer and some as a PP above said some were confused. It all seems very muddled and not something a large organisation should use to implement policy. They need some statisticians in management

Perhaps someone could ask the question of another BBC Radio 4 programme, More or Less, which looks at what appears to be inaccurate statistics and usually tears apart the scientifically inaccurate methodology behind the survey which produced them.

Abitofalark · 11/11/2021 14:21

Thanks for the link to today's interviewee - hah at the typical BBC scruff in the accompanying photo.

There's such a lot to say about Woman's Hour and its presenters - I hope Jenni Murray never deigns to darken its doors again. She played her part in going along with the business of lists of women for awards etc but was crushed for speaking out as a woman, silenced, disillusioned and effectively forced out despite her eminence in broadcasting and long service to women.

Didn't care for those cookery items on Woman's Hour and, like others, can't stand Anita Rani's wittering. Nor am I an admirer of Emma Barnett with her hectoring of interviewees but there we are.

I don't see this move by the BBC being as a result of the Nolan programme so much as the fact that the BBC's regulator, Ofcom. had left the Stonewall programme out of concern about bias and impartiality. That left the Stonewall BBC exposed and in a precarious position. It wasn't the BBC's leadership or initiative but a defensive and self-protective step forced on them. No praise to them for that or for making themselves the tool of minority pressure groups at the expense of women.

The elephant in the room is why does the BBC, with its public funding, numerous HR and other directors of policy and management, all paid in the hundreds of thousands, have to be taken to employment tribunals by women to get equal pay or have to pay a lobbying organisation like Stonewall to tell it how to implement legal rights and practices for its staff? Staff includes women, which they seemed to forget, yet again, in their rush into the embrace of Stonewall on its trans mission. I look forward to hearing they've revised their style manual and glossary of terms which was apparently dictated to them by Stonewall, which they deny, of course.

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 11/11/2021 14:20

My positive feedback has been sent to the BBC.

MORE OF THIS SORT OF THING (I shall make myself a placard)

crosstalk · 11/11/2021 14:04

@CatsOperatingInGangs and other PPs. Your post re VICENEWS was interesting. Ben Hunte is now working for them, apparently, rather than West Africa correspondent, but who knows?. The massive outrush of LGBTQ+ from the BBC appears to be 5 - though I guess many more may leave if they disagree or can't afford to or want to fight from within.

However, the Beeb's most recent survey revealed that out of 21,000 staff 400 said they were trans. Yet 25% refused to answer and some as a PP above said some were confused. It all seems very muddled and not something a large organisation should use to implement policy. They need some statisticians in management!

Yusanaim · 11/11/2021 14:00

The media show on Radio 4 last Thurs afternoon 5/11/21 interviewed Stephen Nolan -it's a good listen. Sorry can't get a link at the moment.
Stephen has Freedom of Information requests in for meetings between Sonewall and the BBC but the BBC is refusing permission so far.

nauticant · 11/11/2021 14:00

The total number of staff in the BBC is apparently around 20,000. If 2% of them are trans, that would make 400.

OP posts:
BoreOfWhabylon · 11/11/2021 13:59

Re the number of trans employees at the BBC, this was reported a couple of years ago after a staff survey. The number then was 417
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1WbP92b6YbpP9j4mwwbtc9Q/contact-us

The figure represents more than one in 50 of the workforce – about four times higher than the proportion in the population at large.

And it stunned the BBC executive behind the research, who described the total number of trans employees, at 417, as 'very, very high'.

Tunde Ogungbesan, the BBC's director of diversity, has now launched a major reform to make the Corporation more 'trans-friendly' following the findings.

Mr Ogungbesan told the Westminster Social Policy Forum that the results would lead to the rewriting of the BBC's 'style guide', which sets out the rules on 'fairness and terminology' at the corporation.

FindTheTruth · 11/11/2021 13:58

Glad Ben Hunte got a mention. Unbelievable that he was seemingly given license to write anything he wanted, instead of upholding basic journalistic standards

Yes his propaganda was shocking and complaints were upheld against his article(s) though it took months (over a year I think?). With the new impartiality drive, it we won't see extreme articles again and problems quicker to sort out

Wildheartsease · 11/11/2021 13:56

I feel really uplifted by this interview. It questions - it challenges - it engages... just as a good interview should.

It is great to see the BBC almost free from shackles and able to get on with reporting on the whole matter.

Will the Dof Education be next? Schools seem to be struggling with confusion between society/stonewall and science. It isn't easy to be clear to children in these circumstances.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 11/11/2021 13:55

Just listening 400 out of 22000.

FindTheTruth · 11/11/2021 13:55

The style guide will be updated as part of the Director Generals Impartiality Drive. Like PP said it will take time to take SW out of the BBC - lot's of unpicking to do and it won't happen overnight

TheLikesofMe · 11/11/2021 13:54

Maybe, maybe, it's a small step towards the beginning of the end for all this madness.

LangificusClegasaurous · 11/11/2021 13:52

Speaking of Ben Hunte and lgbt+ employees of the BBC,
this a For Women Scotland tweet just appeared in my timeline about Hunte's latest expose of staff leaving/planning to leave BBC because they think reporting anything they don't want people to hear is transphobic...

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1458791841609007109

www.vice.com/en/article/n7nv97/lgbtq-employees-are-quitting-the-bbc-because-they-say-its-transphobic

FindTheTruth · 11/11/2021 13:51

He uninvited Nic Williams when Veronica Ivy refused to be in the same studio as her.

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬The person who told lesbians to die in a grease fire and told women to enjoy our erasure should not be dictating guests on a BBC programme.

WinterTrees · 11/11/2021 13:51

I'm glad he's GC, I love his books

JesusMaryandJoseph John Boyne kind of found himself in the GC camp when he was eviscerated and fed to the TRA wolves in the wake of his novel 'My Brother's Name is Jessica'. I think he would previously have classed himself as an ally.

Whatwouldscullydo · 11/11/2021 13:48

Shouldn’t it be a regulatory body that fulfils this role? Or perhaps checks that hr are fulfilling this role?

We have heard the question asked of alot of people. Who else have they consulted with. Answers are never forthcoming. Even if it's true, that womens organisations or any other that companies work with, why are they never able to say. Why is it working with stonewall makes it apparently to embarrassing ir controversial to state who else you work with

BoreOfWhabylon · 11/11/2021 13:48

@TableTopTennis

People are saying ' when did Emma peak' but isn't she doing what a good journalist should? That is, really question and challenge interviewees on political topics? Really hold them to account ( in the real meaning of 'holding to account' , i.e. get them to show whether they have a solid, evidence based, well thought through position;, rather than the Billy Bragg/ cancel culture form of 'holding to account' which means getting people sacked/ financially destroyed/ silenced/ ostracised when you disagree with them.)
Yes. She's being very very careful not to give her own views, just ask questions and demand answers.
RedDogsBeg · 11/11/2021 13:47

@nauticant

In recognition of Remembrance Day the final feature is about female agents of the SOE during the Second World War. Powerful stuff. Great stories but so much to bring a tear to the eye.
Very powerful and very humbling such brave women.
TheLikesofMe · 11/11/2021 13:46

Done it!

FindTheTruth · 11/11/2021 13:46

Stonewall's annual questionnaire, or at least the one DH had to complete for his workplace, assumes everyone has a gender identity. DH does not. (The poor soul!) So ended up having to opt for being non-binary.

So the DATA IS WRONG regarding 400 trans in the BBC. I'm annoyed that I'm not surprised. It's wrong by at least 1 person and could be a lot more.

In another survey the 'researchers' removed all respondents who said they didn't have a gender identity, completely skewing LGBT results. BAD DATA. BAD STATS. BAD MANTRA'S.

BoreOfWhabylon · 11/11/2021 13:46

Also worth contacting Radio 4 Pick of The Week programme
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/59w5B29SrJ3yzb7sdqrhty6/contact-us

And Feedback programme (which covered Nolan podcast last week)
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1WbP92b6YbpP9j4mwwbtc9Q/contact-us