Campaign in Scotland

I only recently sent mine and haven't had any responses yet. But prompted by this thread I checked my emails and saw the For Women Scotland thank you email.

I was a bit disconcerted that at the bottom of that email was

Dear (One of my regional MSP names)
[Copy of the default letter text]
Yours sincerely
[My name]

It was disconcerting because I actually wrote in my own words on the topic as I thought there were things to be said that hadn't been said in the default text and I altered the tone. It was informed by seeing some of the responses you had received. For example, I explained that there is a conflict of rights and that accessing female spaces is not a human right but a female one, just incase the Greens are actually reading these emails before responding with their copy paste job.

I appreciate the thank you from For Women Scotland is also just a template response, but I do hope the email I actually wrote was sent out. I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to say. It's a bit weird seeing something I didn't intend to send signed by "me".

I replied to the Greens asking if they had read my email properly as I wrote about women's rights & their reply only addressed trans rights 😆 I didn't want them to think their awful reply was sufficient and I don't need them to vote for me so 🤷‍♀️

From Stephen Kerr Conservative;

Thank you for taking the time to write to me on the subject of reform to the Gender Recognition Act.

I find it unfortunate that the Scottish Government have turned what should be a very sensitive discussion into a very ugly argument.

I do not support the SNP’s plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act, and will be outspoken on the importance of protecting children from decisions made at a young age that will drastically change their life. I also have concerns that I will raise about what the proposed changes would do to women’s sport, women-only spaces, and women’s safety.

I hope that this debate can become less toxic, but the way the SNP have turned on people who disagree with their proposal has been disgraceful, and this too is something I will be working to resolve with my colleagues on the opposition benches in the Scottish Parliament.

Yes. I don't think there's much point me writing back to the Green!

I might ask the other two if they've had chance to read Helen Joyce yet.

My responses were as follows:

SNP
Dear First Name

Green
Dear First Name ; Second Name

Conservative
Dear Ms Second Name

Labour
No reply (7 days)

I'm trying to decide whether to respond to any of them or not. I thought the Conservative was very on the fence. And the other two assuring me that the Equalities Act protects women's spaces falls a little flat when we know that this is not happening in practice already.

I added this to my email

I would also like to add that removing the word women from recent cervical cancer campaign in our country is exclusionary for women with learning needs and women who have English as a 2 nd language. 40% of women don't even know they have a cervix. According to joes cervical cancer charity

when in Scotland did women become a dirty word to say or use?

Yours sincerely,

Sue Webber Tory didn’t answer me. Have sent an email asking her why she hasn’t answered me

I dunno

Why were women not in the hate crime bill. Apparently we are too complex

Politicians in my country are shite from top to bottom

Interestingly only the Conservative used what I would consider to be the proper form of address for a formal response to someone one does not know personally.

He began "Dear Ms FlimFlam,"

SNP used "Dear Fluffy". Too personal. But avoids gendering doesn't it?

Greens used the very clumsy "Dear Fluffy FlimFlam" They certainly couldn't risk a Mr or Ms though could they?

From the Conservative.

Thank you for your email in relation to the Gender Recognition Act.

A recent consultation on this legislation showed that four in ten organisations did not support the proposed reforms, which include reducing the time it takes for people to legally change their gender from two years to three months, and allowing people aged 16 and above to apply to change their gender.

These consultation responses confirm what we already knew – this is a sensitive topic and opinions are firmly split. We must protect women’s rights and take concerns that those rights are being eroded very seriously. For now, we await the details of this legislation and stand ready to scrutinise each aspect of it.

The Scottish Conservatives will not stand by and allow this SNP-Green Government to push this legislation through Parliament without all parties’ concerns receiving due consideration. There must be a full and informed debate on this issue and that this can only truly be done once we see what legislation is being brought forward.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me on this issue.

Kind regards
Douglas

From the Greens.

The Scottish Green Party is proud to support rights for all women, including disabled women, lesbian, bisexual and trans women. We recognise the intersectional nature of power, which creates additional barriers for women facing multiple discriminations, and the necessity for feminists to work together to dismantle the patriarchy under which we live.Trans rights and women’s rights are not in conflict, as all humans have the same human rights.

In accordance with this pledge, and our robust and proactive commitment to the rights of LGBT+ people, our manifesto commits us to deliver reform to the Gender Recognition Act, including statutory self-declaration. This commitment is reflected in the A fairer, greener Scotland Programme for Government, which embeds the cooperation agreement between ourselves and the Scottish Government. A fairer, greener Scotland confirms that:

“Within the next year we will bring forward the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, removing the current medical requirements and reducing the time that applicants for gender recognition need to have lived in their acquired gender from two years to three months.”

This reform is long overdue, after considerable consultation, and we will be working hard to ensure that it is now completed as soon as possible. As the European Court of Human Rights has confirmed, the human right to privacy requires that trans people are afforded proper legal gender recognition. Such fundamental human rights are not a matter for debate or delay, and we therefore robustly reject the divisive and procrastinating suggestion of a citizens’ assembly to discuss their existence.

Sadly, there has been much misinformation about what GRA reform does or doesn’t involve. The only effect of this reform will be to make the process by which a trans person can obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate less stressful, unfair, disrespectful and dangerous. It will have no effect upon the use of women’s spaces such as public toilets or upon participation in women’s sports, both of which are dealt with by the Equality Act. Neither will it change decisions about the type of prison to which offenders are sent, decisions which are made for individual prisoners on a case by case basis.

There is much work still to be done in protecting and enhancing the rights and the wellbeing of people throughout Scotland, including women, especially women prisoners, and LGBT+ people. This work includes many policy priorities set out in A fairer, greener Scotland: inclusive education, comprehensive childcare, an end to conversion therapy, access to trans healthcare and effective action on domestic abuse and sexual violence. We in the Scottish Greens are proud to have been in the forefront of many campaigns for equality, dignity and fair treatment, and will continue to speak and act for all who are still marginalised and oppressed within our society.

Kind regards,
Ariane Burgess

From SNP.

Thank you for contacting me regarding this important issue.

This consultation on a draft bill to reform the Gender Recognition Act is an early part of the process of making new law. Responses are taken into account, and a draft bill will be introduced into parliament which is then debated, further amended and voted on before being passed.

I look forward to seeing this bill being scrutinised and refined as it progresses.

The Scottish Government has committed to working with trans people, women, equality groups, legal and human rights experts to identify the best and most effective way to improve and simplify the process by which a trans person can obtain legal recognition, so that the trauma associated with that process is reduced.
SG remain committed to making necessary changes to the Gender Recognition Act that arise from this work at the earliest opportunity, while ensuring these changes do not affect the rights or protections that women currently have under the Equality Act.

SG is clear that all organisations need to take account the Equality Act when any changes in policy are being considered. All rights - those of women and trans people - must be protected. This includes the protection of women's safe spaces.
SG is developing guidance to make sure that policy makers and service providers understand better how to ensure that the rights of women and trans people can be collectively realised

The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

This means that single sex services, like domestic abuse refuges or rape counselling, are protected.
As are single sex employment rights in relation to such services and the delivery of health care services, such as intimate examinations.
The draft Bill on which we have consulted did not make any changes to the Equality Act 2010. .
All rights-those of women and trans people-must be protected. This includes the protection of women's safe spaces.

Our support for trans rights does not impact on or conflict with our continued strong commitment to advance equality for women and to protect women's rights.
Under the proposals, people applying for legal gender recognition would:

• have to live in their acquired gender for 6 months (not current 2 years);

• continue to make legal statutory declarations they will live in the acquired gender for life;

• apply to the Registrar General, rather than the UK Gender Recognition Panel, a UK Tribunal; and continue to be subject to criminal proceedings for lying or making false declarations or applications.
  The draft Bill did not propose gender recognition for people under 16. We consulted on whether the minimum age for applying for legal gender recognition should be reduced from 18 to 16.

I hope that my response has addressed your concerns. If I can be of any further assistance with this or any other matter, please get back in touch.

Kind Regards

Maree Todd MSP

Got three responses so far, basically the party line for each by the looks of it but will share anyway....

I'd ask where he got those stats from.

Response from Paul O'Kane MSP in support of GRA reform. Can't say I'm surprised 😞

Dear xx
Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding reform of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

I am committed to achieving a world free from all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Transgender people are one of the most discriminated groups in society – two in five young trans people have attempted suicide, I find this totally unacceptable.
I believe in updating the GRA to enable a process for gender self-identification. I believe that the current process for obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate can be lengthy and traumatic for individuals who wish to change their legally recorded gender.
As you may be aware, the Scottish Government have published the results of the further consultation into proposed reforms but they have not yet introduced a reform Bill to Parliament. As with any legislation I will of course look at the detail in the Bill closely when it is published.
I note that you raise the issue of single sex spaces – it is the Equality Act which allows for the provision of women only spaces, this law rightly assumes the inclusion of trans women, except in specific circumstances. I continue to support the implementation of this Act.
I trust that you find this email informative as regards my position on the matter.
Yours sincerely,
Paul O’Kane MSP
Member of the Scottish Parliament for West Scotland
Scottish Labour and Scottish Co-operative Party
Shadow Minister for Public Health and Social Care

Thank you for your email of October 22nd regarding cervical screening.

I would always encourage all those who are eligible, to take up their cervical screening appointment. We know that these 5-minute tests can save lives, and as such it is important that we encourage anyone who is eligible, to attend.

It is important to note that not only women are eligible for a cervical screening appointment. Trans men, non-binary people, and intersex people may also be eligible to attend and it is important that the wording of the campaign reflects this.

I trust this information is of assistance.

and to bring Scottish legislation into line with international human rights laws. In 2015, Resolution 2048 of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe expressed concerns that requiring someone seeking legal recognition of their acquired gender to have been medically treated or diagnosed is a breach of their right to respect for their private life under Article 8 of the ECHR.

How manipulative that answer is. If not to say dishonest.

1.) Scottish law is already in line with international human rights law on recognising the rights of people who identify as trans.

Not only is it in line with international human rights law, it is cited elsewhere as best practice. That's because only a minority of countries in the world allow people who identify as trans to change their legal sex at all. Fewer still allow this without requiring genital surgery and/or sterilisation. According to Wikipedia, as of July 2021 just 15 out of 195 countries in the world have such laws based on self-id. That's less than 8%.

1. Resolution 2048 was neither debated in nor scrutinised by the European Parliament which is what most people would expect. It is actually a resolution passed by the Council of Europe, which most people don't know all that much about.

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) had 318 members eligible to vote in 2015. The resolution was not scrutinised by the assembly, there was no consultation, its potential impact on the rights of other groups, especially women, was not discussed.

Only 103 assembly members cast their vote, of which 67 voted for the resolution. That's far from universal agreement. I would argue this vote doesn't even meet minimum standards for a democratic assembly, with less than one in three members voting and just 21% of members wanting to adopt this resolution. The resolution is not legally binding, nor has it been cited in any judgement by the European Court of Human Rights. Which brings me to

1. In 2017, fully aware of Resolution 2048 and resolutely ignoring its demands, the European Court of Human Rights ruled in A.P., GARÇON AND NICOT V. FRANCE that while surgery or sterilisation requirements before a legal sex change were a violation of the human rights of transgender people, the requirement for a medical diagnosis and proof of gender dysphoria was not. The ECtHR drew a line in the sand in 2017, and we are already on the right side of that line. The judges argued that states had an obligation not just to people who identify as trans, but also to the rest of society. The requirements for a medical examination and diagnosis served as important safeguards.

Just to demonstrate where Scotland stood in 2017: of 47 member states of the Council of Europe, 7 did not allow any change of anyone's legal sex. 22 did allow a legal sex change, but only after mandatory sterilisation and/or genital surgery. Only 18 allowed a legal sex change without sterilisation or surgery. Of those 18 only 3 (Ireland, France, Malta) had adopted self-id laws.

So Scotland was well ahead of the majority of European countries in having the GRA 2004.

My MSP Fiona Hyslop never replies. I get a generated response from her saying the email has been received but still waiting a fuller reply.

I thought it was reasonable and well put. And he is a very intelligent man. But I don't have the knowledge and understanding of others on the MN feminist threads.

That's actually a reasonably thoughtful response, Tobogganist. So not all SNP MSPs are toeing the party line.

Got this from SNP MSP

Thank you for contacting me about this important issue. This is a complex and difficult topic, and I will try to respond to the individual concerns you have raised.

The Scottish Government has consulted twice, firstly on the principles of reform and again on the draft Gender Recognition Bill to alleviate concerns about the original proposals. This consultation was published at the end of 2019, alongside the draft bill. Work on the draft Bill was paused last year in light of the on-going impact of COVID-19. It is important to stress that the draft Bill did not make any changes to the Equality Act 2010.

Regarding some of the specific scenarios you mention, The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded “when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”. This means that single sex services, like domestic abuse refuges or rape counselling, are protected, as are single sex employment rights in relation to such services and the delivery of health care services, such as intimate examinations. This an issue where patient’s’ rights and wishes should take priority.

The Scottish Prison Service takes decisions about where to house transgender prisoners based on comprehensive individualised risk-assessment. The priority is always the safety of all prisoners. A trans woman can lawfully be held in a men’s prison estate if necessary for safety and vice versa. This will not change.

As you will be aware, at age 16 in Scotland young people can already marry, work, leave home, vote in Scottish elections, consent to medical treatment, and officially change their own name amongst other things. The proposal in the draft Bill to lower the age at which an individual can apply to legally change their gender from 18 to 16 brings the legislation into line with the Age of Legal Capacity (Scotland) Act 1991.

All of that said, I do understand and share the concerns which a number of people have expressed to me about the need to ensure that young people are not put in any position of taking life-changing decisions when they are not fully able to do so on an informed basis. I realise that teachers face a difficult task in navigating through these sensitive issues. So I am glad that the changes in this draft Bill would not apply to people under 16, and I will continue personally to work to ensure that the utmost caution is used in dealing with this issue among people under that age.

The changes proposed, however, as far as I understand them, are mainly intended to have a much more limited effect – to make the process less arduous for adults who want to change their gender legally, and to bring Scottish legislation into line with international human rights laws. In 2015, Resolution 2048 of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe expressed concerns that requiring someone seeking legal recognition of their acquired gender to have been medically treated or diagnosed is a breach of their right to respect for their private life under Article 8 of the ECHR.

I hope this information has been helpful and offers some reassurance – however, if there is anything you would like me to look into further for you on this topic, or if there is anything else I can help with, please do let me know.

Just got this from the tories, can I hold my nose enough to vote for them?

Thank you for contacting me about the proposed reforms to the Gender Recognition Act.

The recent consultation by the SNP-Green Government on this legislation showed that four in ten organisations did not support the proposed reforms, which include reducing the time it takes for people to legally change their gender from two years to three months, and allowing people aged just 16 and over to apply to change their gender, as you correctly state.

We must protect women’s rights and I take concerns that those rights are being eroded very seriously. For now, we await the details of this legislation and stand ready to scrutinise each aspect of it. But, from my personal perspective, I am against the damaging of the hard fought rights for women in our society. We cannot prioritise rights, holding one person’s rights above the rights of others, and I am sure that there is a way through this and that we can find a solution that respects the rights of all. Women have fought for many generations for equality, it was a hard fought battle and it should not be lost now.

The Scottish Conservatives will not stand by and allow the SNP-Green Government to push this legislation through Parliament without all parties’ concerns receiving due consideration

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me on this issue.

Kind regards,

Douglas

Douglas Lumsden MSP

North East Scotland Region